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  • #152390
    Setanaoko
    Participant

    Alrighty….So I know how you all looked at this before.  But before you guys start shutting me out, actively listen to what I have to say.  :mara (prepares to battle for this project) ;)

    I’m not going to say that United Jedi was a flop (don’t know if any of you had been told about it, but as I recall, Talon was making a case for the project when it started about a year ago), but it is getting shut down because of a guy who just can’t handle his plans going down the drains…(if you don’t know the story, you can look at it here: http://unitedjedi.b1.jcink.com/index.php?showtopic=217&st=0 the situation really ticked off a lot of people, so much so, we ended up doing a show on that radio on CyberBullying and Faux Deaths).  Now, David’s project here is one that I need some support with, because I’m taking this on as one of my projects as well.  Why?  For the same reason I needed your support at United Jedi (though I didn’t voice this before): While I can hold my own against some individuals, and I have a clear idea of what I want for the Jedi Community, I need people in there that aren’t the ones I’m almost ALWAYS disagreeing with.  I need other people that can be just as objective, and to put me in my place when it is needed.  And I need those same people to not be “yes men” because they know the individual and don’t want to piss them off by voicing their real opinion.

    The United Jedi project wasn’t a complete failure, but it would have been SOOO much better off if we had had more objective personnel/orders participating.  That is what I’m asking for here.  For some of you to join this project, and help me and the rest of the individuals that are potentially going to join rise up to the occasion and come to a more understanding of where the rest of the Jedi Community is coming from.

    Is this going to be easy?  No, which means it is going to require some stubbornness from each of us, as well as diplomacy.  If you feel you possess both these qualities, I want you on the team.  If you feel you want to develop these qualities, I want you on this team.  If you aren’t confident in your abilities to do something like this, I want you to at least watch and talk with me.  That way I can get your ideas in there.

    May the Force be with you,
    Setanaoko Mizu Oceana

    #152391
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I’m entirely too busy and can’t meet my current responsibilities as it is.  However, I wish you luck and would help if I could. 

    #152392
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    Ok, so I had some time to rethink this and focus my thoughts:

    I think this is a great idea! I think Setanaoko knows where she wants to go with this, and that we will start moving in that direction.  I like that she is ‘rallying’ for support.

    I too would just like to move that motion.  Please if you guys have opinions, advice, or would like to contribute; let us know. 

    Phoenix

    #152393
    inari
    Participant

    I’ll have a look at the site and have a think at least.

    #152394
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    Well and I also think we are definitely doing this in small steps, just sort of gathering information at this point and saying ‘where are we at?” and ‘where would we like to go’?

    I know that things like this come and go, have high and low points, but I think its because people build castles in the clouds with out the foundation, and my goal and active part in this is to provide the oppurtunity for a foundation to be created…at least that’s my hope!

    Phoenix

    #152395
    Beral Khan
    Participant

    For my part, I will continue to focus my energy here at the Institute.  There are so many things to study, which is the point of an institute.  If I may suggest, we have a solid foundation of a good institution right here at IJRS.

    Everyone seems so busy trying to support so many different causes, I think the foundation is with a solid group that knows what it wants to do and is working towards it.  I know that to be the IJRS.  So, if someone wants to explain to me why we need to create another group for people to gather at I am willing to listen.

    My suggestion, for what it’s worth, is to find a group you find represents your values as a Jedi and work to make it a productive one. 

    All this talk of unity this and unity that… to what end?  so we can be unified? and then what do we do?  I do not ask these questions in sarcasm or snarkisism, but rather in ernest. What REALLY is the point?  WHY is it so important we get everyone together?

    There are at least -what – 10? different jedi schools right now. Each one so different than the others they cannot even really come to a common ground in their teaching. This is absolutely OK to me. Is there a reason we cannot have different schools?

    I understand the idea of wanting to be a part of something bigger than yourself. By merely taking on the mantle of JEDI you already are.  so again, what is the point of trying to bring them together really?

    I only ask so that I can really understand the point of unifying.

    #152396
    Setanaoko
    Participant

    If I may suggest, we have a solid foundation of a good institution right here at IJRS.

    You have YOUR solid foundation.  A majority of the issue springs from people not realizing that there are some very good schools out there in the Jedi Community.  So you have YOUR solid foundation.  But what about those individuals that are having issues figuring out where THEIR solid foundation may be?  The first step for this, is establishing: Who are the Jedi, at the core?  What do they all agree on.  Then, it comes down to: What are the additions to the various schools out there?

    Sure they can all log onto Streen’s site and try to research it out themselves, but trust me, that gets absolutely confusing if you haven’t been in the community long enough to understand the basics.  Then you introduce “Aspects”?! What on earth?  So you now how to tread through the work, find the right aspect, and then narrow your search from there.  Finding these basics, I’ve found it, but I’ve been in the community for 7 years and have joined far too many orders to count taking in all sorts of information on the matter.  But I’m on the only person in the community, am I?  I’m one voice.  One voice that has gotten around to a variety of orders to bring awareness to different things going on in the community.  Much like MoonShadow and the Jedi Resource Center tries to do for offline orders, and then tries to snag some of the rest of us in.  So far, I’ve seen people down the idea of unity, to the point where they say it’s just not possible.  But let’s be honest, most of our orders have one person in common: MoonShadow, and she’s doing all she can to help produce opportunities for us to come together and meet in fellowship.  Learn from others.  That’s the goal of the gatherings every year.  Wouldn’t it be nice, if we could also help her project?  But the first obstacle, is communication.

    Everyone seems so busy trying to support so many different causes, I think the foundation is with a solid group that knows what it wants to do and is working towards it.  I know that to be the IJRS.  So, if someone wants to explain to me why we need to create another group for people to gather at I am willing to listen.

    To be taken seriously, and to help people move forward with some of their projects.  These individuals need support of the community (i.e. the Knights of Awakening blogradio show I mentioned yesterday, Callista and MaraJade’s Holistic Center project, Joint Emergency Disaster Institute project that was once in motion-but has since died out (or at least as I understand it, it has), and even as far as the magazine I and Talon are hoping for.  But the first task, is to get our groups to communicate with each other.  See where things go.  Remember that CD project I’ve got going for the Chaplains?  If I thought that Force Academy was enough to explain our community, I would have given our chaplains a copy of Adam Yaw’s “Great Jedi Holocron” and been done with it.  But that’s not the case.  Take a walk around the community.  The only real issue we have with each other, is leadership of the various orders.  But our teachings are very similar in nature-even those of Jediism(religion) have a ties to what the rest of us Jedi Realists are.  Sadly, most people don’t see that.  JediUnity is a project aimed at bringing that awareness.

    My suggestion, for what it’s worth, is to find a group you find represents your values as a Jedi and work to make it a productive one.

    I have one.  But I can find value in all the various communities.  Which, like I said, is why I don’t limit the material I give to people, down to only one source.  Christianity has a multitude of denominations, they are all facets of the same line of thinking, with some twists.  But what makes them central?  Jesus died for our sins and was an example to the world as to how we should live our lives.  The rest is up to interpretation-but let’s put it this way, as Jedi, do we REALLY want to alienate each other the way Christianity’s various denominations alienate one another?  That’s what’s going on, and that-to me at least-is not Jedi.  Jedi SHOULD-theoretically- be accepting of all.

    All this talk of unity this and unity that… to what end?  so we can be unified? and then what do we do?  I do not ask these questions in sarcasm or snarkisism, but rather in ernest. What REALLY is the point?  WHY is it so important we get everyone together?

    Because we learn from one another.

    There are at least -what – 10? different jedi schools right now. Each one so different than the others they cannot even really come to a common ground in their teaching. This is absolutely OK to me. Is there a reason we cannot have different schools?

    There are actually a lot more than this, and that’s the primary issue.  I’m member to AT LEAST 9 of them by now (and that doesn’t include the AOL group, or the Second Life order), and a contact in four other orders. :/  MoonShadow could probably give you a more accurate count.  Every couple of months, I run into a new order, most of them springing off the same “parent” order, but it is this very order which gives us all a bad rep. :/ (they are working on it though ^^).  When I say that is the problem, I mean it is a problem in the fact that some of these orders/schools are going to get left behind, not because we wanted to leave them behind and not include them in the work, but because they weren’t in communication with us to help move things forward.  It’s also a problem, because some of the orders that don’t have a solid foundation themselves, flourish, and it isn’t until members of other orders come in and present new ideas to them, that they realize just how much they are missing out.  Daimo, by creating communication (which is a “loose” unification, and that is my main goal) we are establishing a key component in what makes us Jedi.  We bring about diplomacy with each other and we impact the future together on where this leads. 

    I understand the idea of wanting to be a part of something bigger than yourself. By merely taking on the mantle of JEDI you already are.  so again, what is the point of trying to bring them together really?

    Is it really part of something bigger?  As it stands, we are merely a “fad”.  To some people this is more than a “fad” and to see a movement like this go out without a fight, is just plain sad.  Do I want my children (if I ever have any) to be Jedi?  I’d like to say I raised them with the ideals of a Jedi Realists-but I won’t tell them that I’m raising them with that philosophy.  Shoot, have my child walk into a school where they say “I’m a Jedi”, that’s going to get a worse reaction than them saying “my mother’s a Wiccan and I’m one too!”(for the record, I’m Christian).  But if they choose this path later on in life, I’d like them to at least have the option available to them in the future.  “Fads” die out, and there have been many points in history where religions and movements started up, but died within a few years.  At the very least, it’s a fight we are putting up for people that have projects they want to see move forward.  Things that will help our community in the long run.

    The last thing the Jedi Community needs, is a Grand Jedi Order.  That’s obvious.  It would limit us too much.  But to work towards something more like a sort of “United Orders” (“United Nations”) where we can talk with each other, move projects forward and support one another, as well as produce more diplomacy amongst the whole lot of us, the more we move closer towards producing more quality Jedi in the community-together.

    Something else it does-it helps establish what orders are legit and which ones are RPG (because I’ve come across a couple orders that look like orders, but once you get into them, they don’t know what on earth a Jedi Realists is [as in, never heard the term]).

    As I’ve expressed, if there are people here that don’t really want to participate, but have chances to look in and see something they would like to comment on, let me know.  I’ll get your ideas out there.

    #152397
    Beral Khan
    Participant

    Setanaoko,
    I respect your reasons for wanting unity, which, if I may paraphrase for understanding are these:

    Ease of new people finding one they like
    Legitimacy though unified numbers
    Sharing of information

    I think those are the main points of your post.

    While I can see arguements against all three of those reasons, again, I respect your right to not only believe them but to work towards your goal.

    Frankly, I believe the Force guides us and to continue to fight against the flow is to slow the process to the end in which it has.  This does not mean I will impede your journey. In fact, I wish you a swift journey to your destination.
    I also realize that when someone has Passion for something, they can find it hard to fully appreciate others points of view.  It is for this reason I choose to focus back on the studies here and bid you luck in your journey.

    Most Sincerely,

    #152405
    David Pierce
    Participant

    Don’t forget the guiding reason… compassion and understanding.  We should always seek to understand our differences, and be compassionate about others choices.  Through communication we may explore our differences and through understanding our similarity’s we may unite.

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