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  • #139492
    David Pierce
    Participant

    Please take the time to read this well thought out article ( http://www.jediserenity.com/0408/together.html ).
    I know it is long, but it contains wise words.
      I suggest just what the author suggests at the end of the article.  That the serious minded among us gather together and celebrate each others differing viewpoints, and form a small work group.  The idea would be to dissect the larger and seemingly unsolvable problems into small parts, and then choose a part to examine and resolve.  By including all the major differing viewpoints within our community we should be able to come up with solutions that will appeal to the majority. 
      I propose that the work group take as long a necessary with a single topic before disbanding or moving on to another segment of the problem, whether that takes 6 months or 2 years.  The group would keep track of progress, stay on topic, and above all work diplomatically toward a solution through compromise.

      The groups first task would be to get to know each other and decide what topic to pick apart, be it unity, the creation of a physical location, or leadership.  Once a topic is agreed on, it would then be dissected into small parts.  When the group has decided what the small parts are, they would choose one part to work on. 

      IF you do not have a suggestion for improving the design of the group, I ask that you do not post a response.  Please just answer the poll question.  If you would like to add your self to the list of willing work group members you may do so via this link ( http://jediunity.wordpress.com/category/work-group-off-topic-discussion/  ) or by emailing me ( sblocksmith@yahoo.com  ).

      The only requirements for joining the group are as follows:
      1) The member is actively working to better themselves through training and/or learning
      2) The member will enter every discussion with diplomacy and an open mind. 
      3) The member must agree that closed mindedness and absolution are not the ways of the Jedi!

    Regardless of whether you participate, you are invited to observe the progress here ( http://jediunity.wordpress.com/ ) though you will not be able to post into the work group unless you are a member. 

    #151909
    Jax
    Keymaster

    David, this has been done before.  Many members of this site were a part of that group.  That’s where the Core Values document came from.  I’m not saying it isn’t a worthwhile goal, but realize that it’s been tried, multiple times.  I can think of three separate attempts in the past 3 years alone.  They failed for various reasons, including a finite amount of time available for all the responsibilities the people had.  So if people don’t get involved, realize it isn’t automatcially because they don’t believe it’s useful, but that we feel our efforts are better focused elsewhere.  With limited time, we have to make choices.  I choose to focus on this institute and academy because without proper training, it doesn’t matter what we do – it will fail.  Since I can’t focus in two places at once, this is where my focus will remain.  I hope you keep us (and me) updated on your progress though.  Just realize it’s not as easy as you’d expect at the outset.

    #151911
    Beral Khan
    Participant

    David, in addition to the other questions I posted on your other topic about sustainability, I offer these questions:

    Without repeating the wheel, have you taken the time to see what has been been done in the past and discovered the actual outcomes of each attempt?

    Have you considered that perhaps, the very seed of that which you are looking for is, in fact, right here, happening right now, by the building of a cohesive community on the IJRS?

    Have you considered that you may be rushing in to develop something for a cause you may need to learn more about prior to committing to?

    Does not strong attachements lead to bitter suffering? 

    Just some more questions to ponder as your posts seem single minded in their purpose, but not for personal growth, but for the growth of Jedi.  If we grow as individuals – such as a tree in the forest, we BECOME the forest.  But trying to build a forest for the sake of a forest isn’t natural.  Perhaps if it is not natural, it is not the ways of the Force?

    #151915
    David Pierce
    Participant

    You both present wise words.  Thank you. 

    I hold my personal learning and training, high above any other effort.  If through this project a few Jedi from other areas of the community come together in good spirit, then this will have been a success.  I consider this project perhaps one of the best possible ways in which to learn and practice diplomacy and compromise.  Perhaps it is not the destination that is important, but the Journey. 

    As for looking into past attempts, I am not sure if that would be beneficial or decremental.  Regardless, I do not know where to look for such information.  Perhaps someone could provide me with direction. 

    #151925
    Angelus
    Moderator
    Quote:
    Regardless, I do not know where to look for such information.  Perhaps someone could provide me with direction.

    You may begin with this very site/institution/community. Many here have been part of such dialogues and projects, which is why several are asking that you look into the history.

    Speaking for myself, I have been part of this online/offline community for over a decade and have seen many transitions. The most recent development has been the move offline in the creation of chapters and larger gatherings. And to add to Jax’s and Beral’s comments – the IJRS is also one of those developments. People have been asking for more standardized and comprehensive training. We have been working diligently in providing a high quality of education so that people can live as a Jedi in their daily lives. This goal “dovetails” with the move offline. I know that much of what is created here I take to my Jedi group in Chicago. Now that the IJRS has re-opened its doors I am encouraging those members to augment their training with this site.

    #151926
    David Pierce
    Participant

    Thank you.

    As a side note I ask my inner community, you fine folks here at IJRS for guidance in this matter.  Specifically, I know there is at least one person who was offended by my post on another site.  I realize that one can not please everyone all the time and that there will always be naysayers no matter the cause.  I however can not shake the feeling that I am offending some of those who are reasonable and open minded and who’s opinion I trust.  Thus I am not sure if I am in the wrong or not.  While it is not my intent to insult people, that surly is occurring.  So I must wonder if that is a price worth the effort and passable results.  As I see it the most likely results will be some Jedi come together who may or may not have had the opportunity to get to know each other before, and practice diplomacy.  But if the cost of this added communication within the greater community is hostility… Well I am mindful of it, lets say that. I will do my best to find these past attempts and learn form them, as this has been suggested from people I know to be wise. 

    As far as insulting anyone, or everyone as the case may be, do you think it would help to add to the post that I don’t personally think anyone is doing anything wrong, and that they need to change. I only wish to promote healthy communication, and create an area where Jedi can practice the skill of diplomacy.

    #151927
    Jax
    Keymaster

    It’s more an issue of patience David.  Your intent wasn’t to piss anyone off, but people are still people.  When someone they don’t know comes in and posts basically saying they need to do more, that can turn them off.  When someone has already devoted years and countless hours to this path, sacrificing time with family and friends because they believe in what they are doing, these posts can easily rub them the wrong way.  This is just one reason.  My recommendation is patience and to get involved in other discussions.  Why is it necessary to go somewhere else and reinvent the wheel when many topics have already been discussed at length here (or at the other site you’re referring to)?  I don’t know that you’re offending people per se, perhaps just leaving a bad taste in people’s mouth. 

    Why not jump into the discussions already occurring regarding training, core values, ranks, etc.  See what has been done, get a feel for where things are going, etc.  Start training here with the workbooks and classes as they are available.  I can’t speak of other websites, but getting involved goes a long way toward people understanding your intentions.  Otherwise all they see is someone pushing to get people involved in their pet project which comes across as power hungry or attention seeking.  Without other experiences to flesh out the picture they have no reason to think otherwise. (just as an example)  So this advice really is for any new person to a website.  Be a little patient and your message will be far better received. 

    #151931
    Eldav_Grana
    Participant

    The practice of patience is a vital skill in the Jedi arena, and I also agree that it is important to learn some of the online Jedi history. However,  is there not also a danger in discouraging the eager ideas of newcomers just because we’ve seen similar ideas rise and fall – even if the attempt hasn’t worked out a thousand times in the past?  It is very understandable for those that have participated in Jedi sites for years to discount another ‘rise of the phoenix’ of an old debate, but if every old debate is discouraged or given little chance of a hopeful new outcome, will progress ever be made?  I’ve spent a couple of days struggling with this thread.  On the one hand, it is commonly said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome, but on the other hand if we stop pushing on a barrier will it ever fall?

    I commend you David on your eagerness and obvious concern for the feelings of others.  Weigh the good advice being offered here, but ultimately you need to act on what you feel is the proper path. 

    #151932
    Jax
    Keymaster

    That’s very true Eldav.  David and I had a very long talk tonight, to help him understand what he’s missed from the history.  I’m sure David is learning a lot from this experience and he’ll do whatever he feels is appropriate for his Jedi path.  It isn’t an automatic failure, I think many of us just want to spare others the pain and suffering that this type of process can bring. ;-) 

    #151933
    David Pierce
    Participant

    Thank you

    Quote:
    Why not jump into the discussions already occurring regarding training, core values, ranks, etc.  See what has been done, get a feel for where things are going, etc.

    It wasn’t my intention to discuss our differences, but rather calibrate our similarities.  It was, and still might be, my belief that communication between any two or more people for any reason was a positive thing.  I only wanted to promote friendship, and extend a hand to all interested in the spirit of cooperation and good faith.

    As for it being rude to walk into a place and imediatly say hay we should communicate, I don’t agree. I understand the perspective you suggest, however I imagine my self in a room ( a physical one ).  Follow me here :) There is another person in the room, the other side of the room.  We have taken to opisite sides of the room because we were doing seperate things or had different views on how to do a common thing.  In walks this new third person who stops by to say hi to both of us.  After only a few moments our new arrivle proceeds to the middle of the room and says to us both ” I would like to talk to both of you.  You both seem like nice people, and I thought we could sit down and learn from each other.”
      If I was honest with myself (no matter if I had tried before, and failed) I would have to see the positive suggestion for what it was.  I would ( if grudgingly ) move to the middle and say to my counterpart on the other side of the room “I can not deny that you are both innovative and intelligent, and that I can learn from you.  Surly if we can not agree on how to do what we are doing, we can agree that we can benefit each other in other ways.  Let us try not to agree on any one point, let us simply open lines of communication.  I extend my hand in friendship in the hopes that we can enrich each others lives through active communication.”

      When the next person walked into the room they would not see two people working apart.  They might see two people working close together differently and say to their self ” it sure is nice to see people willing to communicate openly and work close to one another, even though they obviously do not agree of many things.  I bet I can learn something from them, I must join them!”

    But I digress, I believe what most of you have said, or rather I will trust your opinions.  I will set aside further promotion of the project or idea of unity, until I can more clearly literate my intent,and I have put more time into the community.  Perhaps this is wrong, perhaps not, but I can see that there are strong feelings based in this idea and much suffering.  I do not at present believe suffering to be an acceptable price for communication.  Thank you for your guidance. 

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