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April 25, 2011 at 2:38 pm #140236Anonymous
We exist so we are real.
The existence is, so it exists.
Do I really know what is real?
Or do I merely imagine what exists?
Quit knowing, start not knowing.
Discover, face the unknown.
Ever changing, improving your knowing.
Never unraveling all that is unknown.April 25, 2011 at 8:11 pm #158696Kol DrakeModerator
Definition 1. A reality consists of the interactions of a particular thing with what ‘becomes’ for that thing.
Definition 2. A Reality (with a capital R) consists of all realities.
Definition 3. The nature of a reality, or of Reality, is a description or explanation of that reality, or of Reality.
A reality for a particular stone or person consists of that stone’s or person’s interactions with changing environments – ie with what becomes for them. The nature of reality for the stone is not available to any person, since stones do not speak or understand a language any person can understand. However, the nature of a stone’s reality can be imagined or inferred by people. Geologists do this, so do poets like Shakespeare (“sermons in stones”), and so could you if you try. People infer that a person’s reality is different in kind from a stone’s reality since, for example, people infer as a result of their interactions with what becomes that they can have more elaborate interactions with environments than stones can. One way people interact with what becomes is by way of their senses. Another way is by reasoning and feeling, or perhaps by way of intuitions or revelations. Stones don’t have these capabilities. (That we are aware of!)
An hypothesis which can entertain people is that together all the realities – for stones, for people, for whatever – form a single Reality. One can then ask whether or not all these realities, the parts of Reality, have something in common. One answer is that they have in common interacting with what becomes. One can ask further, what is the nature of what becomes? An answer is that what becomes is realities, ie, what becomes consists of interactions with what becomes. That is, the parts of Reality, the realities, interact with each other. Thus Reality is the interaction of realities with each other.
A more difficult task would be to explain how one particular reality interacts with another reality, and with all the realities it interacts with. One can then contemplate how all the realities can or might or do or did or will interact with each other. This is how one can contemplate the nature of Reality.April 25, 2011 at 8:16 pm #158697Anonymous
I’d consider then subjective realities vs objective realities. How are we ever able to deal with objective if we build subjective abstractions. Looking through limited mind and limited senses, all our realities are but illusions.May 3, 2011 at 5:02 am #159056Magdelene NashiraParticipant
This is interesting to me because just the other day I was having a discussion with my sister over the difference between reality (or existence) and belief. I was pointing out that there is grass growing outside our house. No matter what you believe about it, there is still grass growing outside our house. She was trying to claim that it would be possible for the grass growing outside of the house to not be there in reality. But to me that’s getting too carried away.May 3, 2011 at 5:25 am #159060Kol DrakeModerator
*rubs hands together for soapbox lecture time* … good times…
One of the simplest beliefs is that some given thing exists. The classic existence belief is the belief in God.
For existentialists, the belief is in the outer world. If you realize that what we perceive is an internal inference of what happens in the outer world, then our first belief is that what we perceive truly exists.
Note that existence can also have temporal and morphological aspects. Thus A can come into existence at a point in time, it can change (gradually or suddenly) into something else (A becomes . It can also disappear or become extinct. To believe that things can exist is also to believe that things do not exist.
Existence is probably the most basic belief. Thus I believe that the world outside of my mind really exists. Each word that I write has a whole bag of beliefs attached to it. For the most part, however, it is simply impractical to challenge beliefs at this level – though sometimes it can be very useful.
We understand things in terms of other things. Thus we say A is like B or related to B in some way. You look like your father. A rose is a sort of flower.
We also have an entire map within our heads of what we know. Think about something and other things come immediately to mind.
The Freudian analyst’s couch is the classic place where associations are examined. If we associate ‘killing’ with ‘father’, what does this mean? Is our father a murderer? Do we have an Oedipal complex and want to kill our father? This is a very dangerous zone for analysts, who can also create associations by asking things like ‘So, why do you want to kill your father?’
We assume that things are the same, although in reality, everything is different, including two pennies, if you look closely enough.
The trap of equivalence belief is in when we mean ‘some elements of A are similar to some elements of B’, and then shorten it to ‘A is B’. For example, you might might say ‘You are stupid’. I could then be mightily upset because I equate all of stupid to all of me. The verb ‘to be’ is thus a very dangerous word!
Another classic equivalence error we make is that we assume that ‘the map is the territory’. We make internal maps of the outer world and then act as if they are the same thing.
Enaction (A happens)
‘Poodoo happens’ is a common belief that is useful in accepting an imperfect world. We believe in the flow of time and the change of the world around us.
Causation (A ->
We have a constant need to explain how things work, and a part of that explanation is to determine cause.
A false form of causal belief is where we correlate two things and assume that because they happen at the same time or in the same place that one causes another. Detectives do this when a ‘suspect’ was in the same place that a murder happened.
We even have a special part of our memories (procedural memory) to remember how to do things.
Understand what people believe. It is their reality. It is a different reality from your reality. If you want to change their beliefs, start from where they are, not where you are.May 3, 2011 at 5:43 am #159061Kol DrakeModerator
But… it was reality versus belief, no?
Beliefs are ideas. They are concepts. They give us a picture of reality that others can agree with or disagree with. Beliefs are thoughts that can be put into words and these words can be communicated to others. Beliefs, however, are not absolute truths. They are opinions about reality, not reality itself. In the realm of belief we can have our own opinions, others can have their opinions, and we can agree or disagree, remembering that the truth of our beliefs is relative.
Knowing is based on our experience of something. In knowing something, we do not think or speculate about it. We perceive it so deeply within ourselves as true that we don’t have to discuss it, and no matter what anyone else says about it, it does not alter our reality. In this sense, we can say that experience just is. It cannot be proved or disproved. It can go to more and more profound levels of conviction, but it is generally only we ourselves who can testify to it. Our experience is the most interior, private part of ourselves – the part with which we feel the most certain because it lives within us at the deepest place.
When one speaks of Reality, one refers to “life-in-the-happening,” and when one observes life happening one notices the presence of basic, consistent, principles that are ever present in the process of life – certain laws of manifestation that define the nature of reality. They are the governing laws that form the backbone, foundation, and structure of reality. They are the undergirding of reality that operate it on all levels.
And they are taught in some form or another in every major philosophy, theology, and cosmology, because they form the structure of all life. A very simple example is the principle that underlies our knowing that if I hold a ball in my hand and I release that ball from my hand, it will fall to the ground. It is then said the law of gravity is in operation, and one can count on it as simply being the way it is. ‘We’ orient our whole life around the principle that what goes up must come down. It is not a belief system, as much as it is an observable fact. It is reality. We do not question it, and it matters not whether we believe in it or not, it is what is – what goes up will come down.
Reality has a set of similar laws that sages and wisdom seekers have been observing to us for thousands of years. Such basic guiding principles, or laws, were ascertained from their oft-repeated observations of life and nature (including human nature). They observed that these principles are at work on every level of life, including in the way our very own psyche works, even to the structure of the mind!
One tends to discover that when we apply these principles consciously to our lives we begin to move into alignment with reality, and life improves dramatically for us as a result.
Let’s look at the difference between reality and a belief about reality as we examine the statement, “There are no coincidences, mistakes, accidents…” On the surface, this statement sounds like it is a belief, rather than reality, but let’s examine it more closely.
The preceding statement is simply a reflection of the law of cause and effect that says nothing happens by happenstance or in a vacuum. There is always a preceding cause for every thing that happens – there are no coincidences. What we experience in life today was preceded by yesterdays causes. There are no ‘accidents.’
To further expand my meaning, let’s look at this law on the level of our own thinking; the law suggests that what we will experience tomorrow is being determined today by the choices we are making now. Or another way of saying it is that the choices we make in this moment are determined by the thoughts we presently think and believe. It does not matter whether we believe that statement or not, it is the way reality is … it is one of the ways that the law of cause and effect works in reality.
It works like this: whatever beliefs we line up with will be what we attract, and are attracted to in life. For instance, if we believe the world is dangerous or that people cannot be trusted, that will be our experience of reality. We can observe our beliefs-in-action in our lives and therefore know that what we experience in our lives does not come to be there ‘by accident.’
With such a fear-based belief as “the world is dangerous,” we would automatically feel the feelings that go with that belief system. We might feel paranoid, and afraid of people. (Remember feelings come from thoughts/beliefs), as a result we might react (often in negative ways) out of those feelings, often unconsciously.
We might for example avoid people and situations, or react defensively when there’s no need, or see attack where there is none, etc. When we act out of the feelings that come from deeply held fear-based beliefs, we invite a negative reaction from those we interact with that we then use as validation of our original belief.
If, for instance, I believe you’re not a safe person, I might avoid you, or react defensively with you, which then may prompt you to respond to me in a less-than-friendly, perhaps even offensive way, which I can then use as validation that reinforces my belief that you are dangerous. My belief about you sets the stage for my experience with you, my thoughts/beliefs are the cause and your reactions towards me are the predictable effect. A self fulfilling ‘prophecy’. This is what we mean when we say there are no coincidences – we are observing the law of cause and effect. There is no accident to it! The choices we make, the stories we believe, show up in the situations we face in life. There are no mistakes.
When we learn to observe reality and we come to know the guiding principles that operate in reality, we begin to recognize and question our thoughts and our beliefs ABOUT reality so we can attract a happier future.
I am not saying life is predestined … meaning already mapped out, like we are puppets on a string, it’s not that sort of thing. Waaaay too many people practicing their ‘free will’ options to think that. No, but I am saying that we are the ones who determine the quality of our tomorrows, I guess you could say, we ‘predetermine’ our future by the beliefs we carry and project out onto the world around us, and those in it.
BUT, we can choose the freedom and peace that comes when we apply certain basic guiding principles that align us with Reality and Source and allows us to experience a life wonderfully different than anything we’ve known before.
Rather than a life governed by our mind-made beliefs, we instead study and learn to apply certain basic laws of reality. We look for these guiding principles in all of our life situations and use them to anchor us in reality, rather than to go on believing our painful life stories. We can choose to believe in these principles or not, they work whether or not we believe them, but when we align with them we come to know them as the universal laws that set us free!
Now as to your discussion.
Perhaps there was grass or there wasn’t.
The other big question should have been… what color was it when it was there?
Grass playing the part of Schrödinger’s cat.May 3, 2011 at 3:28 pm #159085StryseParticipantQuote:I’d consider then subjective realities vs objective realities. How are we ever able to deal with objective if we build subjective abstractions. Looking through limited mind and limited senses, all our realities are but illusions.
As a human being, you will never truly achieve an objective view point. You are limited by the human brain, to conceive of your (and any other) reality in human terms (evolving though they may be). Even our resident physicist has cautioned us in this regard.
While I maintain there is, indeed, an objective reality behind everything… its not something we can directly observe. How we learn about it is something that falls into paradigm work.May 3, 2011 at 3:53 pm #159089Anonymous
As finite entities we can grasp finite truth. We can, if we adopt the position of “not knower”. How else we are to learn what really is if we approach it with our “knowing”.May 3, 2011 at 3:59 pm #159090StryseParticipant
Well, that’s the point, and a large focus in Jedi training (at least here). Nevertheless, as long as you occupy a human body, you will perceive as a human perceives. Such is the trade-off for being human.May 3, 2011 at 4:04 pm #159092Anonymous
Oh well I view my human body but a small part of what I, you and everyone else is.
We are luminous beings, eggshaped and all. This “larger part” of us has it’s own perception and … I don’t know what to call these things, but it does get its stuff done… whatever it, needs get done… or if there are such needs for it at all… but what I do know, it doesn’t think.
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