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  • #139289
    Magdelene Nashira
    Participant

    I’ve had this thought floating around in my brain and just thought maybe I’d out with it.  It has to do with two controversies going on in our day.  One is the issue of gay people being able to adopt children.  The other is abortion.

    It saddens me greatly that abortion exhists.  I’ve always been prolife, though I do understand that in some situations, like rape, incest, etc, there could be reasons for exceptions.  However, I am saddened by the fact that a lot of people treat abortion like birth control and don’t even give life a second thought.  This going on while there are people who cannot have children and gay people who want to adopt children.  Seems kind of ironic to me.

    But I had an idea.  If they have enough technology and knowledge to clone a lamb, why could they not come up with a better way to handle abortion?  Suppose that when a woman wanted to have an abortion, rather than killing the baby, they had a way to simply remove the fetus and put it in an incubator.  These babies could then be adopted.  The mother would sign a release of their right to have the baby when they had the baby removed and the baby could even be adopted as an embryo.  Everybody wins.

    :yoda

    #149933
    Jax
    Keymaster

    The thing is, life requires more than just biology to thrive.  I don’t honestly think we could ever just grow babies outside of a person because they would not have that energetic connection and interaction with the human it’s growing in. 

    As for abortion, the number of people who truly do it without a second thought are a small minority.  Most give it plenty of thought but for many reasons feel they can’t make any other decision.  And in order for many of them to make that decision, they suffer a lot, it just isn’t shown to anyone else.  In the end, it’s a decision for them to make – a soul agreement made between the parents and the child.  All souls know what was possible going into the situation, and all agreed.  And that situation will impact their lives no matter which decision is made.  Be careful not to judge or choose for them, because it isn’t your life and you really can’t know.  But we can hope everyone makes the best decision for their soul’s journey – keeping in mind we can never be sure what that decision is. 

    Though I do find it quite interesting that the right wing seeks to take away access to knowledge, birth control, and abortion all while denying a portion of the population the ability to take in the either unwanted or unsupported children.  Talk about forcing people into a corner!  Exactly how to they think that will work, because I don’t see too many straight people stepping up to take in these kids (I mean more than we typically see).  Perhaps they just want to create large orphanages and put all these kids in a corner, because you know if keep things out of sight then they just disappear.  ;-)  (I’m being sarcastic, which doesn’t come across online lol)  It’s just silly really, the whole darn situation, especially when all of the reputable studies show know higher incidence of adverse affects to children raised by non-heterosexuals.

    It is an interesting idea, just not sure if science can ever take this on because there’s more than just the biology involved. 

    #149938
    Magdelene Nashira
    Participant
    Quote:
    The thing is, life requires more than just biology to thrive.  I don’t honestly think we could ever just grow babies outside of a person because they would not have that energetic connection and interaction with the human it’s growing in. 

    Not really.  There are people who get pregnant from invetro fertilization and that is not too far from this idea.  There have also been test tube babies.  There is an energetic connection between them and all around them whether they are in a body or not.

    Quote:
    All souls know what was possible going into the situation, and all agreed.  And that situation will impact their lives no matter which decision is made.  Be careful not to judge or choose for them, because it isn’t your life and you really can’t know.  But we can hope everyone makes the best decision for their soul’s journey – keeping in mind we can never be sure what that decision is.

    I wasn’t judging anyone.  Just saying that I don’t like the situation and am wanting to find better answers for the problem.

    As far as all souls knowing the possibility going into the situation, I’ve heard that theory before and I’m not sure that I accept it.  Though I do believe in destiny.

    #149939
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Test tube babies and IV fertilization aren’t grown outside the body – just the initial cells are tweaked and then implanted.  There isn’t a soul at that point, just cells.  But they have to be transplanted into a human host in order to continue developing into a human being.  Nothing is literally grown in a test tube.

    #149943
    Magdelene Nashira
    Participant

    I know, but I’m just saying it’s not much of a stretch to go from that to being able to keep them in something else.  They keep clones in something else.  So you put those two technologies together somehow.  I think if someone wanted to figure it out, they could. 

    Personally I believe the soul is there at controception or even before.

    #149944
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Cloning is very complicated.  Perhaps from the outside it seems more possible, but reality is that all of this is quite difficult.  In-vitro isn’t even that easy to pull off.  It often requires a ton of hormones which makes the process rather uncomfortable at the least.  It also requires implanting multiple embryos  to improve the chances of success – and that’s before it’s more than just a few cells. 

    Part of the problem is that the public only sees the basic, idealized version of these processes.  But that doesn’t come close to the scientific reality of what we’re able to do anytime in the near future.  Not the mention, we can’t just ‘practice’ new techniques because there would be public outcry about experimenting on fetuses – no matter that you can’t distinguish this group of cells from any other group of cells at that point.  So even when it could do a lot of good, it just won’t happen. 

    #149954
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    As Jax states, every method you have brought up *may* sound ‘easy’ — but they all require manipulation of the egg/embryo & then having the manipulated cells/eggs placed into a living host (momma’s tummy).

    Even if science could come up with a mechanical womb, there is still all the esoterica of what a normal baby experiences in a mommy.  Sounds of the mom’s own organs/functions; her own hearbeat and voice; the bio/electical system encasing the fetus and is a part of the mom’s makeup… chemical changes, etc.    It’s a lot more complicated then ‘just’ sticking a live egg in a bottle.

    #149955
    Magdelene Nashira
    Participant

    Personally I don’t think anything is impossible.  It would just require the right people with the right equipment to have a desire to do so.  Science does many complicated things.  I was thinking it would be neat if they developed droids like C3PO to carry the babies in that would have an inner tummy made of some softer expandable material more likened to a human mother.  Then the droid would carry the baby and even possibly care for it until an adoptive parent were available.  I know the idea is out there.

    #149956
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying.  A droid doesn’t have the same energy field as a human, it cannot substitute for a human no matter how similar it is physically.  Humans, especially humans early in their incarnation, require the presence of other people and their energy.  They require nurturing and love, even in the womb.  Spiritually, it just doesn’t work without other humans involved.  It isn’t easy for a soul to leave the complete freedom of it’s normal state to enter a body with all the constraints it entails.  I’m not saying it’s completely impossible, but it isn’t simply an issue of science coming up with technology.  It requires an understanding of our spirit and energy and how that all comes together to nurture other beings.  And that is something you won’t find researched anytime soon.  Nor would I want it to.  No being should be cutoff from that close connection during their earliest moments incarnating.  It’s cruel and would create some very messed up people.  There are no shortages of examples of people who grew up with no love in their life.  We don’t need more of them.

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