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  • #138877
    inari
    Participant

    I was having a chat with Berel today, and we got onto the topic of climate change etc. With Berels permission I’m putting some of the chat log below. We started off with some discussion of where the Academy was aiming for, and went from there:

    Sandra Wheeler = Inari
    thepeterpixie = Beral

    Quote:
    thepeterpixie: i want to ask you. i know the mission. but whats the end goal?
    Sandra Wheeler: Wow that’s a loaded question
    thepeterpixie: roflol
    thepeterpixie: i didnt think so.
    Sandra Wheeler: I’ll be honest and admit there’s still some debate about that. For 90% of the faculty, the end goal of the Academy is to train Knights. A couple of people think that we are being presumptious in that ambition.
    thepeterpixie:
    Sandra Wheeler: If I was to state MY personal goal for the Academy, I’d say that I’d like to see us train Knights and then give some further training in mentoring, with the goal of setting up offline training facilities along with public service commitments.
    Sandra Wheeler: That’s the short version.
    thepeterpixie: cool.
    Sandra Wheeler: This would make a good discussion topic, actually
    thepeterpixie: agreed
    Sandra Wheeler: What do YOU plan to do as a Jedi?
    thepeterpixie: ive mentioned it in some of my homework
    Sandra Wheeler: Is it in your journal?
    Sandra Wheeler: because I only read your Force work (hey, I’m busy lol)
    thepeterpixie: well, it isnt in my lournal i dont think
    Sandra Wheeler: Ok, well then a discussion topic will allow us all to share.
    thepeterpixie: interesting thing came to me talking to principle jax yesterday
    thepeterpixie: student, mentor, teacher.
    Sandra Wheeler: ….I’m not sure I get you.
    thepeterpixie: i see that as the path of a jedi.
    thepeterpixie: do we not teach this to be the path?
    thepeterpixie: to learn what we can. mentor thosewho need it and teach those who ask?
    Sandra Wheeler: Well, a mentor is a teacher so I’d say mentor/teacher. And you will always be a student, even when you are a teacher. Plus, some may not wish to teach but to specialise in other areas.
    thepeterpixie: Alas. not everyone can mentor or teach. but then it makes me ask what then is the purpose of a jedi as defined by the academy?
    thepeterpixie: truly, what does that mean?
    thepeterpixie: a mentor offers guidance but is more inclined to offer emotionalsupport, in my opinion
    Sandra Wheeler: A Jedi has two tasks. To undertake self-development work so they may align themselves with the will of the Force. This goal is to develop a calm, well-balanced and compassionate personality which can use both logic and analytical skills and ‘occult’ skills for the purpose of part b. Part B is where the student applies their skills in the wider community, for the purpose of service to the community and/or the Earth (depending on where their interest lies).
    thepeterpixie: a teacher passes on education. can one be both, sure, but not always.
    thepeterpixie: much like managers and leaders arent always the same
    thepeterpixie: ahh, i understand your definition. is that posted on the websitesome where?
    thepeterpixie: its really good
    Sandra Wheeler: Not sure, probably not lol.
    Sandra Wheeler: I’ve had to answer this question a lot.
    thepeterpixie: and in reading it,it tells me the goal of the acadmey.
    Sandra Wheeler: Well, at least while I’m there.
    thepeterpixie:
    thepeterpixie: mmm. 
    Sandra Wheeler: What I’d really like to see, one day, are Jedi centres where people can go for low-cost healing or counselling etc, classes on all range of subjects from permaculture to how to build a sustainable house to self-development, a library, and dormatories for Jedi students to travel around between them and stay at. I think it could be done low-cost for the public if a roster system was used so Jedi could work to pay their bills and also work at the clinic or library etc.
    Sandra Wheeler: I had a vision a while back of a society where practical skills were dying, and increased costs meant a lot of people had little food or practical skills and were in real risk of starving because they don’t know how to look after themselves.
    Sandra Wheeler: I’m working to alleviate that vision (its that whole oil problem climate change etc etc).
    thepeterpixie: my boss and i were discussing that yesterday oddly enough
    Sandra Wheeler: It’s not odd at all. What did you say?
    thepeterpixie: weve taken the hillbillies who used to fend for themselves and put them on government assistance
    thepeterpixie: now 3 generations later they simply breed more welfare needy families who cant take care of themselves
    thepeterpixie: i wonder if we mightjust find that future sooner than later.
    Sandra Wheeler: that happens here too, entrenched poverty and poor education. As I see it, making education free or as cheap as possible is a solution.
    Sandra Wheeler: I give it about another 4-7 years before shortages really start to bite.
    Sandra Wheeler: This is why I’m doing my vegetable garden, teaching myself how to grow them (again) seed-save, propogate etc.
    Sandra Wheeler: And they taste better loll
    thepeterpixie: i want to learn to make cheese
    Sandra Wheeler: Seriously though, it’s the poor who will suffer first, and at least some of that will lead to increased crime etc. I know how to milk cows, that’s a start lol.
    thepeterpixie: heh
    Sandra Wheeler: May I rant a little?
    thepeterpixie: even before finding the academy ive come up with a system im working for bartering
    thepeterpixie: go right ahead
    Sandra Wheeler: No no, tell me about the barter system.
    thepeterpixie:
    thepeterpixie: its just that there is a lady who has hens
    thepeterpixie: and myboss grows veggies
    Sandra Wheeler: …and….
    thepeterpixie: i want to make cheese.
    Sandra Wheeler: So you’d like to swap around you then?
    thepeterpixie: i figure between just 3 families manyneed can be met
    thepeterpixie: and i know there has to be more out there
    Sandra Wheeler: Thats true. Plus well-rotted chook poo is good for veges
    Sandra Wheeler: Perhaps you could form a co-op.
    thepeterpixie: if we can get local grown things passing around its good on every level
    Sandra Wheeler: Perhaps too you could do a food co-op, buy bulk foods to split as well.
    thepeterpixie: so thats my idea
    Sandra Wheeler: like flour, lentils etc
    Sandra Wheeler: I like it.
    thepeterpixie: true
    thepeterpixie: dont know any one who eats lentils
    thepeterpixie:
    Sandra Wheeler: I do.
    Sandra Wheeler: I make a great lamb and lentil casserole lol
    Sandra Wheeler: Or lentils in a vegetable roast.
    thepeterpixie: and you now have 5 min to rant.
    Sandra Wheeler: People may need to live on a more local level in future as fuel costs go up.
    Sandra Wheeler: I’d like to plant pine-nut pines so I can still have pesto lol. MOst of them are imported here but they’d grow no problem (man thats frustrating)
    Sandra Wheeler: ..ok I like food
    Sandra Wheeler: Ok, now to the rant.
    thepeterpixie: k
    Sandra Wheeler: It is a little frustrating how slowly governments (and individuals) are moving on topics of climate change and peak oil. The signs have been there for a long time that problems will occur, but because to work on those problems will require social change (from selfish individuals to a more concerned community outlook) little or nothging has been done. I think that such a large issue will ultimately have to be dealt with at a grass-roots level, and I hope that at least some Jedi would like to work on helping with the changes needed, and support services in the meantime.
    Sandra Wheeler: Else, it’ll be every man (and woman and child) for themselves or them families, and what the human race has learned about compassion will revert to the cultural mores of the middle ages.
    Sandra Wheeler: end rant.
    thepeterpixie: did it ever occur to you that it might be the will of the force that it happens in this way?
    Sandra Wheeler: Yes and no. There has been a definate movement towards the crisis that humanity is now moving towards, if that’s what you mean (since industrialisation really). I’m not sure if you mean it’s the will of the Force that humanity reverts to fuedalism though.
    Sandra Wheeler: I don’t think that the crisis itself is necessarily the problem. It’s the way that it is dealt with that is.
    thepeterpixie: its happened over and over. it sadly is the cycle of man that goes back long before recorded history
    Sandra Wheeler: That is very true, however I think things have the opportunity of being different this time.
    thepeterpixie: weve lost more knowledge than we have even now.and…
    thepeterpixie: i have to go. but i would love to talk more on this
    Sandra Wheeler: Ok, well there’s always discussion forums. Later mate.
    Sandra Wheeler: Can I post this chat?
    thepeterpixie: sure.
    Sandra Wheeler: t
    Sandra Wheeler: ta
    thepeterpixie: cheers

    So, what do you folks think? How do you see Jedi dealing in the world of now and the future? Do you think the problems cropping up now are are the will of the Force? What do you believe the will of the Force is as to how it’s resolved, or at least dealt with?

    What do you think?

    #147109
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    Noble desires…

    And, here I am probably going to be a regular stick in the mud.  :)

    Many saw the fancy ‘temple’ facility on Coruscant and thought, “wow, that’s what we should shoot for;  a temple/training center/living place — self sustaining hub of all things Jedi.”  If you read the ‘history’ of the Jedi, they started off as wandering ‘mystics and charlatans’ — later grouping and (before Coruscant) having their training/teaching/library/school on some planet off in the middle of nowhere.  It was after that place was invaded and trashed that the Jedi sort of got rolled into the ‘center’ of civilization and became an extension of the Senate’s peacekeeping / negotiating forces.

    That said, that was fiction.

    While I applaud the idea of an ‘all in one’ place; it sounds more like a cross between a co-op, commune, and survivalist encampment than the pretty-fied temple of the movies.

    What should be our mission?

    Let’s get a real class through 3 years so we have real ‘Knights’.  Part of the ‘class work’ will be to work in society / communities so, we get our toes wet working and helping others.  Some will prefer that to turning about and ‘just’ being a teacher to those coming afterward.  Some will teach and go out and come back and teach and go out and…  Hopefully, it will become a self-perpetuating cycle of growth and experiences and teaching.  While it would be real nice to have a Jedi Central to come ‘home to’ — I am not certain that should be such a goal for the next handful of years.  It’s not essential at this time.

    What should be essential is initial training and ‘getting the word out’ and getting more ‘Padawans’ to find us.  To have a solid course / plan in place to keep ‘student’s interested and covering enough ground to make certain they learn useful skills.  Yes, meditation and energy work is useful…… but, except for the “jedi slant”, anyone with an Internet connection can find a zillion web sites which cover those things… and more esoteric teachings.  Some one *has* to be able to see some advantage to ‘being a Jedi’ instead of being …. wiccan, paranormal, a esper, occultist, whatever.

    We are in a ‘tough time’.  Until we get a solid ‘graduating class’, we are still in the experimental stages of development and growth.  Still poking about to see ‘what works’ and what does not.  We are still hoping that ‘at the end of it all’ we will have some ‘purpose’ which will allow us to be a beacon for others to gather around.

    I, personally, do not see Jedi as beacons.  They are the folks who wander up to the edge of the crowd; listen; weighs the situtation; and then — either walks away to another crowd if they think the first is ‘on the proper course’ or steps closer to appraise the ‘leaders’ and offer aid — not to take over and be ‘generals’.  We should only ‘be’ generals is the situation is dire and there are no others to take up the fight.  Before that, we are there to offer insights, direction, intuition, healing, support.

    I am not certain that that means we have to create a combination commune, Red Cross, college, and strategic center all rolled into one.

    In the LONG RUN — I would like to see a more ‘directed’ front —- the healing center sounds like a nice way to bring in people and to further interest in that aspect of energy work.  Having basically a private school would be nice — as long as we could fund the structure, full time teachers & physical plant maintenance.  These kind of ‘big goals’ are the long long term wishes…. but I do not see them as what should be the ‘role’ for a Jedi.

    The role should be for each to hold to the Jedi ideal and aid those who either ask or need it as one can give it.

    I do not expect a single Jedi to be knowledgable in everything from repairing solar generators to milking cats… though I suppose each Jedi will have some skills/knowledge/experience which will make them an asset.  And that’s why we ‘keep in touch’ — for what I can not offer — another might be able to. 

    Sorry for the ramble… and the non-positive slant.
    Just seems like we are wanting to build a Cheops pyramid before we even have a single stone cutter trained or located a quarry to mine stones from.

    #147110
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Well I have always argued that there is no will of the force, and this is a perfect example of why the idea of the force having a will can be dangerous.  We create our world.  Everything that comes up in our lives is our creation, individually and as a group of humans. 

    Therefore, I view the most important role a Jedi can play is to empower themselves and then empower others to create changes within their life.  This then creates change throughout the world.  However, I’m not finding the words to explain this properly so I’ll come back to this later.

    #147113
    Jomela
    Participant

    From the previous posts, I’m imagining a Jedi “home base” would be similar to the way the Vatican functions for Catholicism–the coolest/most precious stuff that defines the order is there, but there are lots of other outposts where you can access good stuff, too–those other outposts can be our own homes for lack of public, formal centers.
    In late 19th and early 20th century Paris, people used to hold literary salons, where they would gather interesting people and have discussions. Couldn’t we begin to pass along what we’ve learned in this manner if we so desired? Much in the way we all found our way here, if we are ready to teach, a student will appear. And I do believe that the best way to “advertise” what we do and who we are is to walk the walk and talk the talk of the Jedi–brown robe optional.
    Let me leave you with a thought that I found on the Quigon Jinn Discussion Group back in the beforetime:
    “Jedi are never the life of the party. They are rarely interested in small talk and speak only when they have something meaningful to say. When they do speak, their voices are steady and resolved–strong but not loud; bold but not arrogant. They shake your hand with a firm grasp and when they meet your eyes, you feel an energy you can’t describe.”

    MTFBWY

    #147118
    inari
    Participant

    Hey Kol mate,

    I don’t actually want one central Temple, and of course you’re new to the community and wouldn’t know this, but I have never wanted one temple (at least partly ‘cos all you Americans want to put it in America, where does that leave the rest of the world?). And I didn’t use the word temple.

    I don’t necessarily think a commune is the answer either, I said dorms for visitors, not a commune. It’s not so hard to have a guest room where Kol can stay when he’s spending 6 weeks teaching in Australia is it? That’s more what I had in mind. Just because I’m a eco-greenie-femo-liberal (and anything that seems appropriate) doesn’t mean I’d make everyone else be (though it’d be nice  ;)  ).

    And I’m not kicking you in the butt mate, just clarifying my statements.  ;D

    We’re going to find that we all have different idea as to how to serve, which is OK because here we CAN have different ideas. We even have different ideas as to what Jedi can do, as you can tell by the difference between my post and Jax’s. Over time, however, I think there will be at least a general alignment in direction as people become more trained, and as the needs of the greater community become more obvious as well.

    #147120
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    heh… I can see helping erect a modified yurt or dome as a ‘guest house’.  Some solar panels for heating water and a nice wind turbine and we would have a pretty cush spot.

    ‘course, once built and maybe breaking in a hammock — you might never get me to leave!  :rofl:

    (( I slept in a yurt loft heated by wood in a 55 gallon barrel ‘stove’ in the middle of the Canadian winter and was as snug as a bug.  Wood exterior polyurethane wind barrier and no other insulation. ))

    Sorry about the ‘temple’…
    How about we negotiate buying out an old school complex (with gym and auditiorium) — convert half to dorm rooms and half to ‘classes’ (( with at least one a good sewing room )) and we would have a neat place.

    #147125
    Anonymous

    I am glad to see this discussion!  All answers have been thought-provoking.

    I am probably more on the Jomela & Kol Drake feeling towards the future of the Jedi Realists.

    One thing I’d like to point-out is that those who have been in the Jedi long-term are for the most part quite young and still just getting settled in their lives.  I feel the numbers in this socio-economic group is a strength but also a weakness in planning for the future.

    I love my life as it is right now.  Although – I find I am beginning to long to meet other Jedi face-to-face and not simply online.  I am not in a position – nor do I think I’d ever want to – be a teacher or farmer in a Jedi Commune.  Honestly – I’d rather put a needle in my eye.

    I will always be independent within a group.  I am saying this up-front as a sort of disclosure for we who are “loners” and who may enjoy the group but never group-living.

    Let me be frank – and I hope I do not offend.  But when I read what some people want from the Jedi Community around the sites I am a member I see the strongest voices for having a central Jedi Temple those who have not established a life for themselves – or their lives are very shakey.  There are enough in this age group and socio-economic structure where I fear again the future planning at most sites is neither balanced or realistic.

    I am THANKS TO INARI – heh – still throwing/giving away stuff and re-doing my house to be as she said a sort of ParaTemple (whatever a single structure would be).  I have gotten rid of 85% of my clothing – and am doing the same with other personal items.  I hope to be able to use my own house for my own training and also have room for occasional wandering Jedi for a week or so stay if desired. 

    (Rather like Sevenhills rambled through the US and stayed with Jedi).

    That said I’m not here to support someone else.  I believe Jax said this to me when I first joined the Jedi Community and I’ve found solid truth in this:  A Jedi Knight must have a stable life.  There are – and please forgive my bluntness – a lot of Jedi on the boards who seem to live on the internet.  I am not sure they work or have ever supported themselves.  Some seem to be professional students – which works only for so long.

    I really mean no disrespect for anyone who must live with the help of others.  We all may go through periods of such need.  I  have, this year, stepped back from doing as much at my own business to give “Jedi time” to myself – and I know the time I spend online will have to decrease due to having to work.  (I’ve worked – but I’ve neglected some things – but after 20 years of crazy-work I know this was right – but I know it’s soon time where I will need to be less active.

    That said – although I do not see a doomsday future – I have also had the call to return to the land.  I love the idea of goats and chickens (goat milk and eggs) and also to do some growing.  My brother just bought a small farm.  I think it is something the post baby-boomers sense in the air.  I also think we as a generational change sense what has been lost through technology.

    What do I see as the Jedi’s role now and in the future?

    Jomela’s post said it for me.  Walk the walk.  But also – I think we do have something to share with the world.  We are uniquely open-ended and both East/West.  We follow the ideals nearly everyone in the world has an understanding (the Jedi Mythos) and are not owned nor owe allegiance to an organizational structure like other religions/spiritualities – and it is this reason I loath the idea of “Incorporating” or “business” before it is absolutely necessary.

    The Jedi so far are pure.  I think it’s an aspect that is not recognized.  I think it may be more the core of the Jedi than most realize.

    Where I live right now I could get online and meet personally with about a dozen Jedi within a week.  Not all-together most likely but I could meet with them.  If I move to Anchorage to open a new business I may feel moved to try to establish a Jedi presence there.  So I do understand that physical need/want.

    That is why I think the ParaTemple/MetaTemple as I understand them is the near future of the Jedi.  It is do-able for most of us above the age of 22.  I also think our identity online is something we have not used to our best advantage.  I was lucky enough to find the Jedi just when I needed them and that may be the best way.  But there are others who may not consider Jedi Realists but for physically organizational groups.  It may help many to know the presence of Jedi online.

    Whether we are existentialist in our feeling towards the Force – or believe in the Will of the Force – our spirituality/lifestyles/ideals are more similar than to the general public. 
    I hope the future of the Jedi is about we as a diverse group than concern ourselves with making ourselves a homogenous group.

    A group is a group – and I think diversity and tolerance is a great strength and a particularly Jedi one.

    Without the Jedi Mythos – the specific spirituality of the Jedi – I would not have learned to meditate – certainly none of the more metaphysical teachings – because for me the context would have been lost. 

    Sorry to ramble-on – but this conversation has come at a good time for me…LOL!

    #147128
    Kol Drake
    Moderator
    Quote:
    Hey Kol mate,

    I don’t actually want one central Temple, and of course you’re new to the community and wouldn’t know this, but I have never wanted one temple (at least partly ‘cos all you Americans want to put it in America, where does that leave the rest of the world?). And I didn’t use the word temple.

    HEY, it just came to mind !!!

    We buy Ayers Rock and hollow it out and it can be THE base.
    Figure it’s big enough to hold a few thousand Jedi and still have room left over for an X-Wing hanger.

    #147132
    inari
    Participant
    Quote:
    We buy Ayers Rock and hollow it out and it can be THE base.

    That would successfully insult every Aboriginal Australian in the country….and I reckon the Americans have already beaten us to it with a secret military base (just kidding there).

    Oh, and it’s Uluru now, that’s the traditional name for it. And I’ll have to find out more about that yurt from you sometime Kol, I’ve been eyeing them off in ‘Mother Earth News’ for a while now.

    Asta does have a good point about the ‘one Temple to rule them all’ idea that many have, I’ve had the same thought before but never expressed it so well. It is much harder to be mobile and move to a central temple for most of us older people with families, business’, roots that are not easily disturbed and shouldn’t really have to be. If we all work to create a Jedi presence where we are, I’m sure we’ll find that there are people who need help right where we are, not in some remote woodland in Canada (I sure wouldn’t mind visiting such a spot one day though).

    #147134
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I also like the way Asta explained her perspective.  The way I view it, I see the Jedi in our lifetimes being a path that is walked solo, or with small groups, yet meeting up for training as a large group once a year or so.  (aka national and regional gatherings)  Now, in the farther future I could see it developing into a system of temples like the buddhists use.  You would have some who live there full time, and others who come in for week or month long retreats.  Beyond that, who knows. 

    As to purpose, empowerment is an almost limitless in it’s application.  Copout?  perhaps.  :maul 

    lol

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