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  • #149012
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    “What Would (a) Jedi Do?”

    Immediately reminded me of the WWJD wrist rubber bands many bought and wore not so long ago.

    Oddly, I tend to think… if you HAVE TO think about how a Jedi would act / react… then you aren’t a Jedi…. just playing ‘to be one’.  For, if you take the learning & lessons to heart and make them a part of ‘who you are’…. then you do not NEED to think about it… you LIVE it and DO it… automatically.

    Some already live that way everyday.
    Some have their moments.
    Some are still learning to make it ‘all’ a part of who they are.

    s’cool.

    Should we make a label called “Jedi” and stand ready to pounce to slap it on the deserving foreheads?  Naw.  Those who are ARE and those who are not but working toward it will be one day.  The rest… come and go. 

    Being able to stand tall and say “I am a Jedi!  (( ’cause I took these classes and survived three days in the wilderness testing and made my own replica lightsaber and…. and .. and… ))”  Suppose it would be kinda cool — BUT — isn’t THAT more about self ego stroking?

    Would not the ideal be:  Being able to look at oneself and think, “I am more than ‘just’ classes and training and tick marks of completion on a list.  I work daily to make those lessons a part of my inner being and follow my connection to the greater Force to the best of my abilities.  I HOPE through living this way, I make a contribution to others and in my own life.”

    For formalities sake (and the reputation of the ‘school’ who taught us) I suppose there is some pride in pointing to a paper and ourselves and saying “I passes and I am now officially a Jedi.”  And, for all those who are taking or teaching the classes — it would be an ‘oooOOOoooo’ moment.  For the rest of the world, it would not MEAN jack.  So, I am not so worried about titles and labels as much as having available classes, training, materials, exercises which mean more to ME… and helping me learn more / be more ‘on the Way’.

    #149013
    Jax
    Keymaster

    And that’s why our classes all have the focus of helping you be more Jedi, not just spout random bits of information.  It’s why the tests for ranks aren’t testing knowledge but application.  It’s why there are offline requirements – because it isn’t just lived online.  I think we all agree with that.  ;-)

    Asta, do you know why we can discuss more freely in class?  Because it’s a controlled environment.  Everyone has agreed to do their best to discuss and not take things personally.  Open forums, however, are not controlled.  I can virtually guarantee if we got too relaxed with our speech here we would have had far more blow up.  And since this is online, it isn’t as easy to clarify as in person.  We can see while we talk that someone isn’t on the same page.  Unfortunately that isn’t the case online.  And since I personally hold myself to high standards of speech, I look for ways to improve communication online and off.  I think if more Jedi had higher standards for their communication we wouldn’t have as much drama as we have seen in the past year or so.  Jedi are precise in their speech.  I think people either forget that, or people assume that is an unnatural way of speaking.  It isn’t though, it just takes focus and awareness. 

    #149014
    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Oddly, I tend to think… if you HAVE TO think about how a Jedi would act / react… then you aren’t a Jedi…. just playing ‘to be one’.  For, if you take the learning & lessons to heart and make them a part of ‘who you are’…. then you do not NEED to think about it… you LIVE it and DO it… automatically.

    Exactly what I am trying to say.

    And, yes, Asta is correct, paint chips and wears away, leaving the wall behind. The same wall that the pain covered with no changes having taken place.

    Just my quick thoughts. Have to get to bed.

    Jade Light

    #149015
    Silver Talon
    Participant

    This concept of asking ‘what would a Jedi do?’ or ‘How would a Jedi act?’ isn’t exactly what I was trying to describe, though I can see value in that type of training.

    My goal is to look at the person that I want to be; the character traits that I want to see in myself and make changes within myself and act as I believe that I should act no matter how difficult it is. I used the example of getting into shape. Initially when we start a training regimen we have to fight ourselves to keep to the schedule and do what needs to be done because it isn’t a habit. Over time it becomes such a part of who we are that we recognize that it is missing when we don’t follow through.

    If we just ask ‘What would Obi-Wan do?’ we might start acting like Obi-Wan but unless we understand the reason behind those actions and seek to internalize why he would act such a way in a certain situation then the exercise is pointless.

    It never crosses my mind to ask the question ‘what would a Jedi do?’ because ‘Jedi’ hasn’t been defined enough for me. I prefer to ask questions such as; am I acting out of love, compassion, and understanding? In communication with others I do my best to never take offense, but rather to understand where the person is coming from so that I might learn and grow. Sometimes these are very difficult because it is human nature to get defensive and to lash out at perceived threats.

    I have a very bad temper. When I was younger my anger boiled over and I did something that I regret. In that moment I had an experience that I’ll never forget. It was as if I was split into two consciousnesses. One was filled with rage, hatred and pure venom while the other was filled with compassion, guilt and self-loathing for my actions. I determined that I would never allow the rage to take control again. I still have a very violent temper; but I’ve learned to control it and so it rarely lasts longer than a split second. I’ve learned to forgive.

    In your opinion; does it make me a non-Jedi because I still feel that moment of rage or does it make me more of a Jedi that I feel the rage and have the self discipline to let it go, find forgiveness and move on?

    My perception might be different than yours but I feel that I’m human and will always be human. I will never achieve perfection and will constantly be struggling with some aspect of my character that needs work in the pursuit of perfection. If a Jedi is supposed to be perfect in all of their dealings then it is impossible to be a Jedi. However, if being a Jedi is about a pursuit towards perfection and realizing one’s potential then the title is there to be claimed by anyone who is willing to try.

    To me, being a Jedi is a journey. I became a Jedi when I realized that I needed to grow and strive to better myself and work to help those around me. I’m constantly being a Jedi as I continue to work on myself and serve the good as I see it. I will become a Jedi when I accomplish goals that I’ve set for myself along this journey.

    The paint on the wall, the face wearing a mask; I would define that as a lie. It would be like creating my own Order/Academy just so that I could lead something when there are other orders/academies that are largely in line with my personal views. This is a farce, a claim of being a Jedi when the true desire is power and ego-gratification. Or it’s an act of hypocrisy, saying one thing but actions demonstrate something totally different.

    What I’m speaking of is seeing the person that I want to be and doing my best to become it. It will always be an ongoing process because I will always find flaws within myself that need to be changed. No matter how much I can love, I’ll need to love more. No matter how good I can communicate, I’ll need to be a better communicator. No matter how much I need to understand, I’ll always seek more understanding.

    #149017
    Brandel Valico
    Participant
    Quote:
    Hmmm… 

    First – Brandel – if I bullied ANYONE here then I am horrified at myself and apologies.  I don’t see it – but sometimes we can hurt someone and not see it.

    If it’s done on my personal blog – then tough.  That is personal – it’s also been taken-down for a few days – so if someone was hurt they were likely meant not to be hurt but OFFENDED.

    Hmmm… Not sure how WHERE something is done matters much. If it’s done it’s done. If I do something at home but not at work does it mean I didn’t do it?

    What I had to say was meant to invite personal discussion OFF the general Jedi Boards and on my own blog.  It was a way to have discussions that was all ON ME. 

    My big concern is DISCUSSION.   This discussion was about the “right to claim the name Jedi”.  I think it’s an EXCELLENT topic – had a good discussion – maybe zigged-and-zagged as discussion do (in person too). 


    As do I which is why I responded to this topic and made the point of noting that alot of the comments off topic ( I did fail to mention that in my last post concerning the statements I read but didn’t feel the need or right to respond to. Which was an error on my part I should have clarified that. I should have made that clear and apologize to everyone for not doing so)

    I have my opinions and impressions.  They may not be mainstream.  Your impressions and opinions may not be mainstream all the time either.  BUT I WANT TO HEAR THEM.  And then – I would love to discuss them – with anyone at any time without censor.

    Most of mine aren’t thats true. I also enjoy your opinions and impressions also. I actually do agree with some of them even.

    There is much censorship within the Jedi Community…  In addition – paint does not seep into rock – paint is washed off rock because it is surface – it is false…

    In the short time I would agree but in the long view I would disagree about the properties of paint and it’s ability to seep into a wall. Still thats not really the point of the analogy. At least not the impressions I took from it. I do agree that just using a wall to keep others from seeing the real you inside is indeed false. But if you are the wall. Are you still false? If you can become the wall asnd thus it is you are you still a false wall?

    THAT SAID – I have said that “playing” Jedi is fine to an extent.  Chris Tien Jinn made a statement at Jedi Temple that for some it’s a learning tool we all use.  We put on this “paint” when we join a new community through location or job or school to learn to “fit in”.  Some do it for entertainment and learning.

    But where there is over-use of this particular tool until it is no longer a tool but a “cover”.

    Perhaps “putting on the paint” should be acknowledged – along with RPG – officially and made part of the Jedi Realist Culture.  (One some can take- part and others not…like the light saber fights, and other fun and educational tools people use.)

    I definatly agree that it is and should always be a learning tool not the way you do things.

    Jadie – please – you need to stop using “Asta and I”…  We agree a lot – and I love you – but we don’t agree so very much on everything –  as we both know.  What is happening, because of this grouping-together,  is that I’m not sure people know who is saying what.

    We do discuss – and if you want to say we talked about this and agree – that makes it easier.  It’s just it’s used a bit much – and I don’t always agree – and it difficult to then have to respond???  (I know you understand…but I say this on this thread to let others know I don’t completely agree with all you’ve included me in saying.)  NO HARM THERE – Jadie – and I do differ a bit in our views as is normal and healthy – and we have become friends because we can disagree without upset – we just chuckle and say, “Yup – okay – got it…lol”.

    Brandel – if the question you are asking now to be answered is about the history of the Online Jedi… 


    Uhm… actually I didn’t ask it I just responded to it as it was asked. Hence why I said it was asked before. Though it was about the future of the Jedi as a whole I think not about the history or just the online part of the Jedi. You would have to check the question asked though to be sure I may have mis-understood the orginal posters phrasing if it was about the history of just the on-line Jedi.

    I can only answer what I plan to do…

    The name “Jedi” is problematic for me, so this part is easy.  I don’t call myself a “Jedi” and I think the use of the name at all outside of referencing the Jedi of Star Wars is wrong.  Since 1977 I have referenced the Force and the Jedi of Star Wars relationship to it – as what I feel most like my own philosophy and spirituality.  I was “Christian” and also subdivided within “Christian” and I still consider myself a Christian because being raised as one…well…it’s “part of me” just as being white, female and from the U.S. is part of me.

    This summer – I find I actually REALLY NEED the training I’ve received.  I think we are all headed into tough times – we who work and support ourselves.  We are entering challenging times – and with those times comes great opportunity for growth and change.

    Ecological problems, a change in the political and economic landscape, our place in the world, even technology seems to all be coming together for “a perfect storm”.

    When the REALLY big challenges arise – so do the really big opportunities.

    Our planet is heading more towards what has been forshadowed in our fiction than at any other time.  We are pretty offically out of the industrial age – and are heading into more what Star Wars envisioned (along with SO MANY science fiction stories) where humans are truly determining their destiny globally.

    The need for a new culture – one that allows for diversity and heritage – a global culture is what is being decided upon.   It has made us at this moment in time “side-eyed” where we watch one another, realize the positive and the negative, and determine how we go forward in what really is a new world.

    The planet is talking to one another…through space and time…

    We can create almost anything – but how do we sustain life?

    Who decides?

    The United States may have a black president.  It MAY SOON have a woman president. 

    It’s a new world – new horrible and wonderful opportunities.

    I see the philosophy/lifestyle/spirituality of the Jedi – THE BEST OF THE REAL JEDI – not the fakey jumps, the costumes, the corny speech,  the “PAINT” but what is real is what the world needs.

    It could be called something else – it could have different faces – but the philosophy/spirituality/lifestyle of the Jedi I came to understand through the various writings and the teachings online – as well as the fiction – and that there are no boundaries or limits – is what is needed in OUR HEADS AND HEARTS to face this new world.

    What is it?

    1.)  Meditation is part of it’s center.
    2.)  Lifelong learning and training – of ALL kinds – independent and taking classes.
    3.)  Mindfulness to things around us in the Five and Sixth Sensory meaning.
    4.)  Giving-back as we may…daily…in our lives.
    5.)  Body/spirit/mind lifestyle…  One of health realizing all work together. 
    6.)  Willingness to defend the planet ecologically, people and animals from harm, and in
           following the laws so long as they are just.  Defending the ability to speak-up and
           change what is not just ecologically, legally, politically, economically.
    7.)  Humility and respect towards all…  But not play-acting, not over-done pretend monk
           stuff – but in our real daily lives.

    It’s EASY to pretend.  It’s easy to paint something rather than see the beauty and worth of what is really there.  Or see what is wrong with what is really there – rather than paint it over…

    We all put on masks through our days.  We are employees/employers, teachers/students, parent/child, friends/enemies, lovers/strangers, home/away…  We all act all the time.

    Actually we ALL don’t. I agree some do. But jobs and the rest you describe don’t alter how I at least act nor do they define me in the least.I’ve quit jobs over simply feeling someone was mistreated. I have cut off friendships with people who act wrongly if I was unable to help them stop doing so.  I act as I do or would no matter what the situation is. I had this same discussion along time ago with Relan concerning the habit many had of considering the Jedi as a separate part of themselves which they only do here or with certain people. As Aslyn can confirm it’s not something I have ever agreed with nor do I do. I am simply put a Jedi at all times. True I still fail and mess up and make mistakes but part of being a Jedi is standing back up admitting you did so and moving on.

    But to act like something in particular that is FICTION?   I can see it to an extent.  I really CAN…  I love old movies – and once used to go to the old movie houses dressed in the time period of the film (silent era).  It was FUN and you felt “part” of what wasn’t really there but in spirit.  We talked the talk of those times, danced, pretended to smoke, and it was fun and a sort of “immersion” experience.

    Then we went back home – got online – and had the real discussions as the people we are…

    Agreed if all your doing is acting.

    I am going forward no matter…  Things have a way of turning-out if you keep it in your mind and I feel the Jedi Path is one that will work out either with this group or in another way – or maybe just with some here and others of other names and places.

    Whatever works for different people in different stages of life…or culture…or needs…or strengths.

    For myself I can’t do it through a layer of paint.
    Does that make me wrong?
    Those that need the paint – does that make them right?

    All I’m asking for is to consider and discuss it…

    No one can be all right or all wrong…  In the end we all decide on our own.

    – Asta

    Nope it doesn’t as has happened before I agree that we each will have very different ways of approaching the Jedi path and the tools that work for one may not work for the others. But just as it’s wrong for others to say If your not using the paint your doing it wrong. I would say it’s wrong for others to say if you are your doing it wrong. As you said we in the end we all decide on our own. If it helps others to use it let them. If they still don’t ever make that transition from “Acting” to “being” Jedi are they really harming anyone with their “acting”

    Now just for the record :) I did read the other posts after this before responding and I am enjoying this discussion and everyones thoughts. But I felt I should respond directly to Asta’s post in this fashion. Not to single her out from the rest but simply because she directed part of her post to me. For which I am grateful as I know it means she did read and consider what I wrote before with thoughtfulness as she tends to do. As such I am returning the favor.

     

    #149018
    Anonymous

    I am not posting with emotion, not allowing my past to influence my posting, and not taking things personally.

    Quote:
    In your opinion; does it make me a non-Jedi because I still feel that moment of rage or does it make me more of a Jedi that I feel the rage and have the self discipline to let it go, find forgiveness and move on?

    My perception might be different than yours but I feel that I’m human and will always be human. I will never achieve perfection and will constantly be struggling with some aspect of my character that needs work in the pursuit of perfection. If a Jedi is supposed to be perfect in all of their dealings then it is impossible to be a Jedi. However, if being a Jedi is about a pursuit towards perfection and realizing one’s potential then the title is there to be claimed by anyone who is willing to try.

    To me, being a Jedi is a journey. I became a Jedi when I realized that I needed to grow and strive to better myself and work to help those around me. I’m constantly being a Jedi as I continue to work on myself and serve the good as I see it. I will become a Jedi when I accomplish goals that I’ve set for myself along this journey.

    By this explanation, I would be called a Jedi but yet many do not want to call me so.  :ponder

    I know that many think that when I flap my lips about another being a bully and such, that I have lost control. Actually, if you knew what I was like when I loose control, you would realize that I am totally in control. Just because what I am saying is not what you would say does not mean anything – that I am not or am Jedi. And, see, that is the thing. People don’t know what I was like before I started this journey. I was very much different than what I am right now. If I had to put a symbol to it, I would say I was the devil’s henchman before I started the path and now I am, maybe, one of God’s lesser angels.  :P

    So, since I am following the path, having cleaned up my act in comparison to what I was like, then I have made strides and am therefore, by your telling it, a Jedi.  :surprise

    Just like you, I will never achieve perfection. I will always be working on moving up the Jedi path, bettering myself. I agree, I have my moments of being the life of the party but I also have my moments of being a better person that comes close to what a Jedi is suppose to be like.

    So now we have a contradiction. Jax says that I am not a Jedi but, by your description, I am a Jedi. There is nothing worse than instructors, I believe both of you call yourselve, that have presented a contradiction on what constitutes being a Jedi, for one says I am not and the other implies that I am if I apply what they wrote to my pathway.  ???

    So what am I – Jedi or not?

    Jade Light

    #149020
    Anonymous

    What would a Jedi Do?  LOL…  Bad Kol…lolol…

    This giving verbal definitions of a “Jedi” is difficult for the reasons I guess we’ve all seen here. 

    Rather than try to define the Jedi – I’d rather see what the “do” in their daily lives to be Jedi.  I’d rather see training journals – or just posts – where people discuss their failures and successes and just talk about life…

    I’ve said what I think helps to make one a “Jedi” in real life.  It’s what I turn to – the tools – I didn’t have before.  Also the way in which I view my life and what is happening around me differently.

    It’s so individual – and yet – the similarities between us are so much more than the differences within this community.

    I do think having some training helps to guide one down the path – especially in the beginning.

    HOW we all progress is too individual to say…

    Jax – I don’t think the control is necessary – or that arguing is bad so long as it means communication continues.

    It may be easier in a class setting because we also stay in focus and on target?

    But I think most in the Jedi Community can overlook those who are not in the discussion for communication – and maybe use a little patience with some who are newer or younger – and allow dialogue to continue without censorship of self or others?

    I see the censorship – the stiltedness – as the real problem and why so many people leave or are afraid to speak-up.

    The Jedi are people and will argue.  They will tell stupid jokes.  They will not always read a post completely before answering…  I know – sure – but the alternative is what we have now…  VERY LITTLE DISCUSSION.

    Ah well – that has been the same old drum I’ve been beating for a couple of months now.

    I know some understand – some agree – some don’t.

    No pun intended – but I really think this community just needs to lighten up a bit…

    – Asta

    #149023
    Silver Talon
    Participant
    Quote:
    So now we have a contradiction. Jax says that I am not a Jedi but, by your description, I am a Jedi. There is nothing worse than instructors, I believe both of you call yourselve, that have presented a contradiction on what constitutes being a Jedi, for one says I am not and the other implies that I am if I apply what they wrote to my pathway.  Huh?

    Why?

    I believe you could go to any college across America and probably across the world and you’d find Professors who disagree with each other and contradict each other. In almost every field papers are written that argue and explore issues back and forth. The idea here is to provide a place of learning and growth, not to tell you what or how to think. We’re not presenting a doctrine that says ‘there is only one path, only one valid way.’ Instead we try to acknowledge that there are many different paths to follow. We’ve chosen to work together to find commonalities and combine our knowledge and experience so that students can do a significant amount of training in one place, rather than having to jump around.

    I don’t know what you are looking for; but if you are looking for a place where everyone agrees and everything is aligned perfectly and everyone is exactly on the same page and same idea; you probably aren’t going to find it. This organization, just like any other organization is made up of flawed individuals. Anything that I help create is going to be flawed because I am flawed. There will always be gaps, holes and disagreements.

    The problem might be that I’m just a student; not an instructor. I’m a member of the faculty and in time I’ll be presenting my ideas; but I fully expect to learn just as much, if not more, than I teach. I’m here to grow as a person and hopefully to be a set of shoulders for others to lean on and use as support as they grow.

    #149024
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I said you aren’t a Jedi?  I didn’t say anyone was or wasn’t a Jedi, and I definitely didn’t single anyone out.  If you go back to my original reply I stated generally how I refer to people as Jedi or a Jedi student.  I do my best to not make a judgement about who is or isn’t Jedi, though I will sometimes say things like I don’t think we have Jedi Knights yet, and definitely don’t have masters.  I believe we have subject matter experts, and people who are pretty close to knights, but without knowing more I hesitate to think of anyone as a Knight.  So I’m rather confused as to why you would think I have ever stated you weren’t a Jedi. 

    #149028
    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Quote

    Quote:
    So now we have a contradiction. Jax says that I am not a Jedi but, by your description, I am a Jedi. There is nothing worse than instructors, I believe both of you call yourselve, that have presented a contradiction on what constitutes being a Jedi, for one says I am not and the other implies that I am if I apply what they wrote to my pathway.  Huh?

    Why?

    Why?

    Because this thread is about who has the right to claim the name of Jedi. In order to claim the name of Jedi, or call another a Jedi, there must be an understanding of what a Jedi is. If one person says that I am not a Jedi and another implies that I am just by a description of what a Jedi is, and I fit that description, then there is a contradiction in the concept of what a Jedi is. Then it will be hard to determine what a Jedi is and how one would, or should, claim that title.

    Quote:
    We’re not presenting a doctrine that says ‘there is only one path, only one valid way.’

    No, you are not stating that there is a set path but what is being stated is that there are set actions. Those actions are based upon what a Jedi is assumed to be like. In stating that there are set actions that are acceptable and actions that are not acceptable, you are creating a set path and one valid way.

    Jax,

    I do apologize as you stated that I was not a Jedi Knight. I did not look back at the exact quote. Mea culpa.

    Jade Light

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