- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Stryse
I’ve been trying to come up with something nice to segway into a topic I think is worthy of some discussion… and haven’t come up with anything, so ultimately I’m just going to take the pieces from another thread and see what comes of that.
Some context though:
When it comes to Jedi, no one size fits all. We have different types of Jedi. What I’m referring to specifically is the distinguishing qualifiers in our choice of labels that identifies someone as a “Light-Jedi” a “Dark-Jedi” a “Shadow-Jedi” or something else.
The obvious question is what are the differences between them, but the question I am most concerned with is, what makes them all still Jedi? What traits makes a Dark Jedi still a Jedi and not something else like a Sith?
I am hesitant to ask which piece of the label is more important, “Jedi” or the qualifier, as the importance is likely more situational to the context of whatever conversation is being had. In some cases the “Jedi” portion is far less important and in other cases its the only thing of importance.
Anyway, the conversation thus far:
Quote:The classification of light, dark, and shadow are, to me, secondary to the classification of Jedi. Shadow Jedi or not, I would expect that anyone using that moniker is a Jedi first and foremost, and conduct themselves accordingly. Again I have my own notions on what that conduct should be, and those notions may not reflect yours. Yet I’ve evaluated them (my own) against what other Jedi have expressed on that subject. By and large they appear to be consistent with what most people consider how a Jedi acts and behaves. So while I may not match 100% with everyone else here, I would say that the tenants of being a Jedi that I hold are very much inline with those held by pretty much everyone on this forum.Quote:Really/ I doesn’t seem that way. You say having an open mind is a defining principle of being Jedi. You suspect I come here to present a rigid doctrine, yet you’re the one who’s got a pretty tight definition of what jedi is, see important differences as “secondary” and expect everyone to be the way you want them to be.Response:
That would be a rather gross misrepresentation of my statement. 1) I have not actually outlined my definition of what a Jedi is anywhere in these forums (except to say that its more about how they live than it is about what they believe that makes a Jedi a Jedi), so it would be more than a bit premature to start assessing it as being ‘tight.’ From prior conversations we’ve posted on the topic, it would certainly appear I apply a broader definition than you do anyway as to whether or not someone can accurately describe themselves as a Jedi. 2) I was quite clear that it is ‘my own notions’ which may or may not be shared by you (or anyone else for that matter). It is quite a leap to say that I then want everyone to be a certain way. I have my ideas of what makes a Jedi a Jedi and they are pretty much inline with most other people’s idea of what being a Jedi is. “Most other people” does not equate to “every other Jedi out there.” I fully expect dissention and acknowledged upfront that there probably was. “I suspect that you and I just have a fundamental difference of opinion on it, which is fine,” seemed sufficiently accomodating to other points of views to me and hardly indicitive that I think my views are in anyway more valid than someone elses. I have, afterall, maintained that yours, while different, are equally as valid. 3)We can discuss the fallacies and merits of relegating qualifiers before the term “Jedi” as secondary here.
To that end…
Which is more important is probably circumstantial. When discussing various branches of Jedi practice, qualifiers like light, dark, grey, shadow, etc. carry much weight and importance. A Light Jedi is not a Dark Jedi and one shouldn’t confuse the two. On the other hand, both are still using the term “Jedi.” Just how different are they, in the grand scheme of things, and what commonality is there between them, if any?
We know that Jedi and Sith are not the same things. (Asalyn has a nice post articulating the differences between them). At least I’ll assume for the sake of this conversation everyone is in agreement that Jedi and Sith are different things.
If so, then a Dark Jedi is not the same thing as a Sith. Although I personally couldn’t explain to anyone about them, I have heard mention of terms like “Light-Sith.” This suggests that within some Sith circles, at least, the same kind of differentiation is taking place.
Does the statement “A Jedi is a Jedi” hold any meaning? Is there anything inherent to a Light-Jedi, a Dark-Jedi, and a Shadow-Jedi that unifies them as all being Jedi instead of something else? Or are they so distinct (our light, dark, and shadow brethern) that they warrant being regarded as completely seperate from one another?
Does what it mean to be a Jedi really differ if you qualify yourself as a Light Jedi vs. a Dark Jedi? Certainly there are differences, but are they both not, at the core, still Jedi?
One analogy that came to mind on this was that of trees. We have lots and lots of different kinds of trees. Decidious and confiers being two qualifiers we have to distinguish between types of trees. They’re different from one another. They work in differently in some (though not all) ways, one remaining green year round, the other getting rid of its leaves each year. Yet regardless of whether or not they shed their leaves in the winter, we still regard them as all being trees. There are certain things we can expect from them, as trees.
A tree and a shrub, however, also share similarities. Some shrubs are decidious, some are ever-green. Yet there is something about them, that while having similarities to a tree, makes them not a tree, but instead a shrub. What is the difference? Is a tree a tree? Is a tree a shrub?
Is a Light Jedi still a Jedi? Is a Dark Jedi? A Shadow Jedi? Are Sith just Jedi with a different name? Most witches are the “shadow” variety. Are Shadow-witches the same as Shadow-Jedi? The Force twists and turns around the Witch just as surely it does the Jedi. Its extremely difficult, if not outright impossible, to differentiate between the two solely by observing the Force and how it flows through/around them. Is a Witch, then, the same as a Jedi? Jedi also have some commonality with Shamans. Are Jedi and Shamans the same thing?
When we say we are a Jedi, are we even talking about the same thing?
If you’re a Light-Jedi, what makes you a Jedi? Not what makes you a Light-Jedi, but what makes you a Jedi?
If you’re a Dark-Jedi, what makes you a Jedi and not a Sith?
If you’re a Shadow-Jedi, what is it about you that makes you a Jedi?
Be you light, dark, shadow, green, purple, or of the many colors, Why do you take the mantle of Jedi?
Andy
Personally, I really don’t care to terribly much if they call themselves tuti-fruity jedi. To do so is missing the point of being a jedi. We are an order of knighthood and we need all types. We need Lancelots just as much as we need Galahads, Gawains, Boors and Kays. They were all knights of the round table and all special in their own way. None of them were any less of a knight because someone else at the table was better at something than them.
If people feel like drawing lines between themselves and their fellows, that is just throwing up FURTHER barriers in the community.
To me there are only 3 things necessary for someone to call themselves a jedi.
1.) Belief in A Force
2.) Belief that we may interact with that force in some way. (Chi energy, meditation, prayer, etc etc)
3.) ServiceThese, i feel are what tie us together despite the color or shade.
Quote:Personally, I really don’t care to terribly much if they call themselves tuti-fruity jedi. To do so is missing the point of being a jedi. We are an order of knighthood and we need all types. We need Lancelots just as much as we need Galahads, Gawains, Boors and Kays. They were all knights of the round table and all special in their own way. None of them were any less of a knight because someone else at the table was better at something than them.If people feel like drawing lines between themselves and their fellows, that is just throwing up FURTHER barriers in the community.
To me there are only 3 things necessary for someone to call themselves a jedi.
1.) Belief in A Force
2.) Belief that we may interact with that force in some way. (Chi energy, meditation, prayer, etc etc)
3.) ServiceThese, i feel are what tie us together despite the color or shade.
Items 1 and 2, it would seem, Jedi have in common with certain groups of non-Jedi. Provided we don’t put limitations around what can be included in items 1 and 2, I’d say that a fair chunk of the human population so far qualifies.
That leaves us with item 3, Service. What then do we mean with service? Service to others? Service to self? Service to country? Service to the Force? All of the above and then some?
There is a certain simplistic beauty to the notion that service in and of itself is sufficient, and to serve the moment.(Kind of an aside, but related: I was recently at a monthly little get together of ‘people on alternative spiritual journeys’ and the topic of discussion was ways in which we can be agents, or more specifically, messengers of the divine in the world. As I was listening to people regale their stories and examples from their own lives of how they have ‘been in the right place at the right time to deliver such a message’ I kept hearing a common thread that spoke to what my answer was all along: Permit yourself to remain open to the Force and relax while it puts you ‘in the right place at the right time’ to serve.)
Service is a critical component to being a Jedi, I agree. Fortunately its also a broad enough term to be inclusive of a lot of things. I suspect though, we don’t want to keep it too open as service to our own self-destruction feels contrary to known habits of Jedi, amongst other destructive, yet serviceable things.
Aslyn
A few years into joining the Jedi Community (which was about 10-11 years ago now), I started being a proponent of the various ‘aspects’ as we used to call them that constituted the way we thought about the Jedi Way at the time – in essence, dividing the mantle of ‘Jedi’ up into the labels of ‘Light’, ‘Dark’, ‘Shadow’, ‘Grey’ and what have you, basing this on methodology. The essentially dealt with the focus of these ‘schools’, to the extent that we considered them distinct: the Light Jedi were, in a sense, the ‘classical’ Jedi, those who believed that they followed the ‘Will of the Force’, and acted in a particularly moral manner, using the by-now standard methodological approach of self-awareness, a calm ‘default’ state of mind and an invariably strong desire to serve others. The Dark were their counterparts, those who believed that calm rationality was a waste of natural ability, and that the true means to touch the Force was through mastery of emotion – learning to channel it rather than merely apply the self-restraint of the Light Jedi. The Shadow believed in Balance as their foremost and fundamental principle: in essence, they were the middle way between the two extremes. The Grey were even more confused, believing that both schools held a legitimate view, and thus sought to apply both methodologies simultaneously.
Here we are now, in 2010. What’s changed? Everything and nothing at all, as always – you’ll still find several of the aspectual schools up and running in places (most notably at the Force Academy). But most of the Community has turned towards a more unified approach: instead of trying to accept everyone who wanted to use any old approach and call themselves Jedi, we’re almost Jedi Purists – this all coming under the banner of Jedi Realism. It is more conventional, returning our path to the more traditional approach used by the Light Jedi, but at the same time accepting the knowledge of the other schools and teaching the same emotional awareness used by Dark Jedi, all the while keeping the usual controls we had before – in essence, accepting that personal choice comes above all other things: it is at your discretion whether you express what you feel, or whether you control it in favour of a more objective rationality. The aspectual schools are, for most of the community, a thing of the past: dead, purely because they couldn’t stand effectively on their own.
As you say, those classifications were always secondary to the nature of a Jedi, but as the distinctions began to grow, we stepped away from the Jedi path, focusing instead on our differences rather than our similarities. As the community has evolved, I’d like to think we’ve come to a better understanding of how to approach the Jedi Way – simply put, while it’s possible to use any methodological approach and maintain your awareness of the energies around us and the way they connect all life, simply calling yourself a Jedi does NOT make you one. Perhaps that’s a harsher approach than we used in the past (where anyone and everyone’s view was accepted as valid), but since Jedi have begun gathering and making a more cohesive sense of forward motion, those natural realities have had to come into effect.
Put simply, there are no Light Jedi, no Dark Jedi, no Shadow Jedi. There are just Jedi, and those who would use the label without walking the path that makes them one.
Well, as I’ve been known to say… we would do well to focus more on the similiarities than the differences. While its well within human nature to distinguish things by these subcategorizations, I feel that humanity puts undue focus on those differences. I tend to see them as being only subtle nuiances between individuals of any population. Even when those differences aren’t so subtle. When we focus only on the differences we run the risk of loosing sight of the greater reality of something. Whatever understanding arises from study of those differences seems to always result in a limited view of the subject, only a partial truth is gleamed. The same might be true, though, of taking the opposite extreme when people refuse to acknowledge there are differences to be observed. Nevertheless, I feel that those people whose focus is only aimed at categorization are short-changing themselves in their understanding of the universe. The are greater truths to be known and far more to the world than our [physical] senses can perceive. There are many things whose whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Human beings, for instance, come in a variety of skin tones and cultural backgrounds. There are many models to choose from.
While I acknoweldge those differences, I don’t typically think of people in terms of the labels society so often applies. To me, there isn’t an african race, a hispanic race, a caucasian race, etc… For one such as me, only the human race is evident/relevent when looking at the rest of my species. I wonder how different a social landscape we’d have if more people shifted their viewpoint away from our cultural/racial differences (which in the grand scheme of things don’t amount to very much) and toward a ‘one human race’ mentality. I suspect we’d see far less division and far more fellowship between cultures. I just hope it doesn’t take an external threat to the Earth to get us there.The human experience is vast, a bit unweildy, and incorporates the individual experiences of every human being that ever was, ever is, and ever shall be. Each new birth adds to the human condition, never can we subtract from it. If the Force teaches us anything, its that all those individuals are interconnected. Within each individual human being resides the totalality of the human experience; we are all a part of the human spirit. What happens to one stone reflects on them all.
Kol Drake
Quote:Personally, I really don’t care to terribly much if they call themselves tuti-fruity jedi.But but… can you imagine the colorful robes they would wear!
Quote:But but… can you imagine the colorful robes they would wear!Yea… They would be the most Fabulous jedi in the order!
Macgilleon
Quote:Quote:But but… can you imagine the colorful robes they would wear!Yea… They would be the most Fabulous jedi in the order!
HA!!! That’s too funny.
But Regarding this thread… and speaking to service, What is Service? Service to Whom? If it’s Service to community that can range anywhere from homeless shelters/meals on wheels to Full out Military service. Service to Self? well that sounds a bit un-good. Service to the Force? Well that’s the thing…what is the Force if not Everything. What we need to define is simply what is meant by Service.
Do we really?
I apologize, my previous post was cryptic.
I will elaborate. When you look up the very word service in the dictionary, you are presented with many and varied definitions and connotations of the word. One major theme to all of them is that service is actions that are preformed for the benefit of others. The example of self service does not appear at all in the original syntax of the word.
So, excluding the example of “self-service” and serving up a volly ball, I cannot find in its many forms, anything that contradicts the spirit in which the word is meant. With so many examples of the way the word can be used, so too can there be many ways the word can be implemented, why constrain it in list form the proscribed ways a jedi serves?
You must be logged in to reply to this topic. Login here