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December 24, 2008 at 9:01 am #139290Magdelene NashiraParticipant
Something that has recently been on my mind is what I call the Illusion of Invincibility. This is something that I think is common in people, especially those who are young and strong and have never come into contact with that which is more invincible than we are. This could be a person, situation, creature, or disease to name a few. But sooner or later in life, no matter how strong we are, no matter how smart we are, no matter how well we train, we meet with it. There is always going to be someone or something that is stronger, smarter, more invincible than we are.
But the antidote to this is faith. Particularly faith in “There is no death; there is the Force.” Having faith in this does give us something that is invincible because it gives us the realization that it doesn’t end here in this body that is not invincible. We are a part of the Force, providing we are allied with it, and the Force is indestructible. However, faith doesn’t always come easily. It is something that can be learned. Something that grows. Something that we can practice. Meditation gives us opportunities to grow in faith. Watching other people demonstrate faith and reading the wisdom of others of faith like the great spiritual leaders can help us grow in faith. Talking to each other can help us grow in faith. Simply being mindful of things going on around us and seeing how things play out and envisioning the spiritual side of things can help us grow in faith.
Perhaps you can think of more ways to cultivate and grow in faith. There are probably as many techniques as there are people.December 26, 2008 at 5:49 am #149948JaxKeymasterQuote:We are a part of the Force, providing we are allied with it
Perhaps I misunderstanding what you wrote, but nothing is outside the Force. Everything is connected, even if the elements aren’t aware of the larger Whole. The most ‘evil’ we can think of is still part of the Force and still returns to it following physical death.
However, the basic premise that death is just an illusion is true. Physical death is simply a transition from this incarnation back to our full, limitless self, fully conscious of our connection with the Force. It isn’t always instantaneous following death, but eventually all beings do reach that remembrance.January 18, 2009 at 8:25 am #150338DraconisParticipant
Faith, for me, is something I do not seek to cultivate. I agree that at some point we get a feeling of invincibility and someone stonger, smarter, etc. will knock us down a peg or two, but isn’t that a good thing? If we believe we are invincible, isn’t this belief a result (or sometimes a cause) of arrogance? I would argue that not only is it beneficial for me to be aware of my limitations, it is also beneficial for me to realize that we have not reached our full potential, there is someone that has progressed farther. However, my ideals and are aimed in a different direction than the ideals of most Jedi, so I do understand that we might need to agree to disagree on this, but I thought I’d throw my perspective out there for everyone to mull over .January 18, 2009 at 8:48 am #150339Erik JogimarParticipant
Invincible is a somewhat vague term, or rather the underlying punchline is. Invincible in what regard?
Immortal, sports, warfare, math?Quote:What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how
infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and
admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like
I was reminded of these lines from Hamlet, by an episode of startrek TNG
where Q (He’s totally loveable! ) tries to understand the human compulsion
to move forward, to explore and grow.
We all are so much more then we may appear on the outside, at the same
time we sometimes make ourselves much less then we are. The line between
invincible and it’s negative (what’s the english word?) can be rather blurry as
our interactions, experiences, and external/internal stimulation changes.
ErikJanuary 18, 2009 at 12:37 pm #150341RobinParticipant
I think the feeling to be invincible in something already is arrogant.
In my point of view we are here to learn and to grow and as long as that is going on, by anytime, anywhere there will be someone, somewhere, on something better than you.
As it has had been said before, that can be disease or maybe a group of persons (reminds me of my teacher, sry).
All time there will be a chance to learn and when we awake that feeling of invincibility the world will just await to show up that we are not.
Still we are human and won´t be able to stop this that easily, so faith will be something that can help us to accept the challenge and lessons live will give us.
On the other hand, making us smaller than we are won´t help us either, it´ll just slow us down ( who´s talking about that…).
By the way, I´m differencing here between having the heart to go onto our lessons and having the faith to bear the consequences we brought up with our decisions.
I do see a little difference here, as on of it actually is a decision to take one way, the other one is behind that decision and more about trying not to hurt others…
Both of it is growing in our heart and in my opinion we can it all along as we live.
As there are points to show some faith every day we also can train to do it day by day.
And about death, it´s just the next step in our growth before we come back to learn again.
There seems to be a reason, why most of the elders are dying while sleep or when say are alone, it seems they are making there peace with it before they die and do not want someone to hold them back, wihing they would stay (hmmm, may a bit strange but it´s my expression).
As more we fear something as more we will hold on it.
Just my little thoughts to this, hope I hadn´t missed something…
Greetings, RobinJanuary 21, 2009 at 3:21 am #150365Magdelene NashiraParticipantQuote:Faith, for me, is something I do not seek to cultivate. I agree that at some point we get a feeling of invincibility and someone stonger, smarter, etc. will knock us down a peg or two, but isn’t that a good thing? If we believe we are invincible, isn’t this belief a result (or sometimes a cause) of arrogance? I would argue that not only is it beneficial for me to be aware of my limitations, it is also beneficial for me to realize that we have not reached our full potential, there is someone that has progressed farther. However, my ideals and are aimed in a different direction than the ideals of most Jedi, so I do understand that we might need to agree to disagree on this, but I thought I’d throw my perspective out there for everyone to mull over .
Possibly we may just need to agree to disagree, and that’s Ok. However, I’d like to suggest that even here there is a bit of faith required. You have to have the faith in yourself to get back up again after someone knocks you down a peg or two, or you won’t. Some people just give up hope and stay down.January 25, 2009 at 8:52 am #150379DraconisParticipantQuote:Possibly we may just need to agree to disagree, and that’s Ok.
Yes, I think that this will end up the case one way or the other. Personally, I don’t think that faith is necessary to get back up, nor hope; but I digress , neither of us are likely to be persuaded on this .January 26, 2009 at 5:37 am #150383Magdelene NashiraParticipant
Ok, that’s ok. But I’m just kind of curious as to how you think you would continue without faith or hope?January 28, 2009 at 9:07 pm #150391RobinParticipant
:ponder I don´t think you´ll find anyone who absolutely lost faith, heart and hope.
Without it they won´t be able to life.January 28, 2009 at 10:07 pm #150392NitsudParticipantQuote::ponder I don´t think you´ll find anyone who absolutely lost faith, heart and hope.
Without it they won´t be able to life.
I don’t think that’s necessarily true… there are many who attempted suicide that could tell you that’s not the case. But it depends ultimately on your pov, if you come at it from a symbolical point of view you can believe whatever you want.
For instance if you think a person without hope/faith/love/etc isn’t really living…
I would also argue that from the time we are conceived until the time we realize that when we cry our needs are met… we as life forms have no faith at all.
On this topic in general, I think that faith can be like a coin: two sided. It can help you grow… but it can also be the very crutch to hold you back. It really depends…
I see life as fragile… the lives I encounter aren’t just a preliminary test. My daughter is my reincarnation… the people I influence are my afterlife. I my invincibility is in my wish that they to will pass on the humor and positivity I freely gave them. While I may or may not be correct, I personally find this outlook helpful so I am constantly reminded to spend my time deliberately and positively.
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