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  • #190775
    Yoshio
    Moderator

    For me, this might be lost in translation a bit as my understanding of the phrase “May the Force be with you.” was along the line of “God bless you.” or “Good Luck!” and in that way I guess, I take and took it like Memnoich.
    But in general I do like the phrases given by Jax more.
    “Remember, the Force is always with you.”
    “The Force will be with you, always.”

    My personal usage is along the line of “May the Force guide you along your way/path.” Here again my feeling and take is along what Memnoich wrote, that the Force is always there and that I do wish you that it will help and guide you on your path and not working against you.

    #190878
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I like that as well Yoshio.

    #192736
    Victoria
    Participant

    Would, “May you feel the Force is with you” work? because The Force is always with you, but you might struggle to feel that when under pressure. It would be like wishing for the person to find the threads of connection under all circumstances. Even when undergoing something taxing or a dark night of the soul.

    #192768
    Yoshio
    Moderator

    I like your phrase quite a bit, Victoria. Thanks for sharing it with us. So, may everyone feel that the Force is with you, always! :meditate

    #194322
    Archmaras
    Participant

    Ok I am possibly stirring up a hornet’s nest, or maybe diving into a lesson later on in my path, but does this mean the force (in reality not just in Star Wars) has a will of its own? If so how do we know what it is? Does this determine destiny, a limited destiny, or do we have a full free will? Is the balanced force actively neutral, seeking a middle ground between light and dark, or is it a force for good only (or evil only, I suppose) and we use it for good? I have always seen the force as a nonpersonified field of energy like gravity that we can just use. Saying “May the force be with you.” in this context, however, implies intent.

    #194323
    Kol Drake
    Moderator
    Quote:
    “Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It’s an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together.” ―Obi-Wan Kenobi

    The Will of the Force is something that Qui-Gon seemed to strive to follow more than any other Jedi of his time. Most of the Jedi were more intent on following the will of the Jedi Council.

    The Will of the Force is never suggested to be all powerfully consuming, either. Qui-Gon simply strove to follow it fervently. He didn’t have to if he didn’t want to.

    After all… we all have Free Will… so we can decide to ‘follow that hunch’ versus ignore it.

    Most tend to agree that ‘the Energies of the Universe/The Force’ tend to have a tendency or ‘flow’… and we can decide to ‘go with the Flow’ or not. But most who try to buck the flow of things tend to make things harder.

    Canon presents it in a very ambiguous way, but I’m going to go with a ‘yes but it’s limited and not a sentient being as we would define it’.
    If the Force had a strong will, then it would make it so that those who imbalance the Force, such as Dark Siders, would never be capable of imbalancing or hurting the Force. If Palpatine was such a threat that a Chosen One had to be born to counteract him, then a strong willed Force would have just cut Palpatine off from his powers. Yet it cannot.

    I view the Will of the Force being 90% of the time merely the Force guiding those who use it to the best ends that achieve their goals. Force users clear their mind, focus on their goal, and the Force shows them the best way. This works for Dark Siders as well as those who do not use the Dark Side. The Force also shows visions to those who would be interested in them, or those who would view that knowledge as important to act upon.

    Really, the only major instance that could be seen as the Force having a will and not those using the Force asking it what the best way to their goal was, would be in the creation of the Chosen One. And depending on if you think Plagueus created Anakin or Anakin was a backlash against Plagueus’ experiment, that might not even be the biggest sign of the Force’s will.

    Many who try to shoehorn the Force into a ‘religion’ instead of some form of energy/cosmic thing…
    try to force it (sorry) into the concept of Christianity which means The Force==God and therefore has a ‘Will’ that directs us. But, that is a lot more ‘taking a crowbar to hammer it into a box’.

    #194324
    Yoshio
    Moderator

    I haven’t really much to add to what Kol Drake already wrote. For me the Force is, first of all, neutral and as such doesn’t have an intention and, although we, as human beings, might have a destiny, a set path, it is still within our abilities to choose as we have free will. But, and again as Kol Drake already wrote, if we choose to act against what is beneficial or in the way the Force, the Universe or whatever wants to flow, we will experience that things are harder to achieve than as if we would listen to it and go with the flow. This doesn’t mean that we cannot change things, it, for me, just means that we need to somewhat imprint our will into the Force, the energy and in this way somehow convince, for the lack of a better word, it that this is the will, the flow. For me this means and hold the option that if many are striving for the same thing and put a certain focus towards it, it becomes easier as more energy is directed towards this one goal. But still, for me, the Force itself has no will or intention, it “just” is and offers tools for those sensitive enough to use them to do so.

    #194340
    Archmaras
    Participant

    I guess what my struggle here is, if the force has no will and it’s just mindless energy then it begs the question “So what?” when the phrase “May the force be with you.” comes up.

    #194342
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    As some note in various threads and maybe in a lecture or two… the Force has ‘tendencies’. A tendency is not a ‘will’ as we think of it. Still, tendencies tend to define trends and pathways… taking the term to the water/stream/current analogy.

    So what if the river has a current?
    Yep… it is there and you are bobbing in the middle of the stream. So what? Truth is, you don’t have to focus on the current — BUT — you will learn (sooner or later) that you are being taken along, down the river course… whether you wanted to or not.

    So what if it’s mindless?
    Water does what water does. It flows. And, with the aid of that silly old thing, gravity, it goes from a high spot to a lower spot. Is that a predetermined destiny? Or just the way the universe (and it’s laws) work? Can water suddenly decide to NOT flow downhill? Not seen that happen in OUR universe (so far) and yet, we really should be open to any and all possibilities. (BUT (again), did the water DECIDE to do it or did the laws of gravity and the universe change where ever this ‘reverse’ happen?)

    So what is it with that phrase, “May the Force be with you.”?
    *shrugs* You could go around saying. “God’s Blessing upon you”. Or “Aloha”. Or perhaps the universal greeting of the Transformers (animated movie circa 1986), “bah weep grana weep ninny bon”.

    Why not wish someone to be in harmony with the universal energies of the cosmos? Why not wish them rough seas and crappy weather, “May the non-existant Force shit all over your day.”? *shrugs*

    #194344
    Archmaras
    Participant

    Water doesn’t have a mind of it’s own and flows where it naturally does and yes it’s easier to go along with it, but sometimes it’s not where you need to be. Waters flood, gravity pulls people to their deaths, just because something is easier does not make it the correct path, and often times it is the wrong path. (E.G.: negative peer pressure) So why should we go with the force wherever it leads? Why trust a force of nature to keep the Jedi way in its best interest?

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