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  • #139346
    James Windu
    Participant

    A few months ago i wrote this. it was called “fighting for peace”

    In a perfect world there would be peace all the time. Do we live in a perfect world? Will we ever live in a perfect world? Hate to break it to you but no. perfection is the only thing that is impossible in this world, but does this mean that peace is something that is imposable to reach? Many people would say yes, but I and many Jedi here would have to say that peace is reachable, the only question is how?

    As Jedi we are taught to reach peace through negotiation and many other ways that do not involve fighting. This should be used whenever appropriate but if the situation calls for something more you need to be ready for it, and this is why we also teach martial arts and self defense to our Jedi. You would think that a Jedi should know the line right? Heck as a reasonably smart person you should know it.

    In this world there are bad people who want nothing more than going down in history as such. There are people who kill for money, religion, fame, and so many things that are only right in there twisted minds. Sometimes these people are leaders of countries and terrorist groups. Sometimes countries like the United States steps in to help bring peace to the people who are suffering from that mentioned above. Sometimes these peace seeking countries mess up as expected but overall they do try as hard as they can do help bring the world to peace. Wither it be creating a group for world leaders to negotiate their troubles, sending some troops to get rid of the bad guys, creating a group to go over to troubling countries to aid them, or just doing whatever it can to help out, we can all agree that their intentions are well. But just like situations that the Jedi sometimes come across, fighting is sometimes necessary for peace in this world.

    Now I bet if you ask a Jedi what he would do if some crazy guy who was nonnegotiable was beating up some guy who could not defend himself I bet you would get some what of the same answer from everyone. Now ask him if he agrees with war. Some might change their answer, but why? I’ll leave you guys to answer.
    Personally I hate war. It is mans darkest hour and I wish it would never be necessary. But it is. Sure there is no peace during war… but was there peace before the war? Not having war when necessary is like that Jedi from above saying he would just leave the man to be beaten to death. And then the beater would hunt down more and more helpless victims until either everyone in the city gave him there wallet or he beat everyone, and that is something that cannot happen. Do people not realize this when they bash on war? It’s messy but then again so is the situation before it.
    Sometimes wars make things worse than they were before. Everyone makes mistakes right? War is an option that should be used as a last resort when nothing more can be done. And sometimes war cannot fix things either. If people end the wars at the right time then wars like Vietnam and Korea would be written a little bit better in the history books. Sometimes knowing when to stop comes too late, but people learn from their mistakes and are better because of it. And that is why I’m confident that something like that will not happen again.

    War. It sucks. But then again so does everything else that leads up to it. If people would just listen to each other and care about each other, and not be on a quest for power and attention. Than the world would be such a better place. Maybe even something close to perfect right? However there will always be bad people. I just hope that there will always be a few countries that care about the rest and will take a stand against the bad people. Countries that will continue to help despite the contradiction from not only other countries, but some of the people inside it as well. Countries that will do anything to try to keep the peace of the world and its people happy, even if it means putting the countries itself through a very hard time. Hmm…sounds allot like the Jedi now doesn’t it? =p

    Thank you for reading and please post what you think.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    a few weeks ago i wrote this. it was called “the faith of peace”

    A few months back I wrote about how I thought fighting for peace is sometimes necessary… However in the past few days, I learn many things that disturb me and sicken me about my species that I just sometimes cannot stand. We are all human, yet we do not care about each other. Some do, many do, like the people here. I am so grateful that I am a part of a group that understands that caring and kindness is important. Yet I look at our world leaders. I see all the dark dealings that they do, even if they say that they are trying to achieve peace. The fact of the world is, once someone has a taste of power, most of them crave more and more. They do not care about the people they lead and only care about themselves. They try to make us think that peace is being achieved by the things that they do, however sometimes it is them who do the acts of terror, in order to gain the public opinion to do whatever they want to gain power.

    Why can’t everyone love each other? Why can’t people see that we are all human and we are in this game of life together? The corruption in the world is at a point that causes my mind to be in a point of total distrust in many things that are said to be needed to achieve a new, better humanity. People are easy to fool. And when people do not get fooled, they get silenced. This makes peace almost imposable.

    The only way the world can be at peace is if everyone believes in it and cares about each other more than themselves. We say we should start small. We say by bringing peace to a household, street, town, or even county will help in peace on a bigger scale, but it has come to me that this is a wrong idea. See if a country leader is “evil”, his followers will be too. And even if there are a few in a country that do truly care about others and believe in peace, as long as the leadership does not believe, it is impossible to achieve. This works on a bigger scale too. Let’s say that magically a country does have peace. Everyone cares for others and cares more about love than power. Then a country who is the complete opposite comes along and wages war on them. No matter what the conclusion of the war is, this will ultimately lead to the peaceful country becoming the same as the attacker. I understand now that one of the biggest, if not the biggest, importance to peace is trust. Trust that others will feel the same way as you and have a relationship that creates kindness and love.

    “If everyone believes peace is possible, it will be”

    However, it only takes one to ruin this. Let’s talk about my hero and role model john F Kennedy. He believed in peace at a time where the government felt war was needed to stimulate the economy and for other interests. He shared many great words with us and was on a path that could eventually lead to peace in at least the united states, if not elsewhere as well. Look up some of his speeches and you will find that he truly cared about this and explained why peace was not happening in his day and age. What set him aside from everyone else was he actually cared about other before himself and was on a quest to change the world for the better. However one mans savior is another man’s destruction.

    The following is based on my opinion, other opinions, and the facts and science of what happened. John F Kennedy was assassinated by a group of people who cared only about themselves and power. People who saw change coming and decided to act to prevent it from happening. But what JFK didn’t know was that it didn’t matter how many amazing speeches he gave. It didn’t matter how much he cared about people and for peace. It didn’t matter that he used his power not to gain more of it, but use it for something that could benefit everyone in the world. It didn’t matter because there where evil, selfish, crude, and powerful people who did not believe in peace and only wanted war and power from it. So they killed him and brought to office a man that they knew would follow instructions and do what he was told. These men did not go away with the passing of the century, they are still in our government and they still have a lot of power. And as much as I want to explain to you my feelings on these evil politics that is not really what this topic is about.

    So what is keeping us from peace is the horrible chain that I am about to explain.

    Peace seeker explains why peace is good and tries to share his views with others so that everyone can believe in peace and make the world a better place.

    Bad guy see’s this and silences this peace seeker before they actually give his words a chance and open there minds to the idea of peace.

    Years later, a new peace seeker is taught and inspired by one of the past and uses his progression for his own, which can help achieve peace and make the world better.

    And yet again, this man is silenced just like the person who wanted peace before him.
    It all comes down to this chilling and terrible fact. Peace tries to kill chaos, and chaos tries to kill peace. What makes peace so hard to achieve is it only takes one person in the whole world to kill peace. And the chaotic people who only seek power seem to achieve it, making the battle even more in chaos’s favor. How long will it be before all the peace seekers give up and join the side of chaos?

    I do not know if our lives are based on destiny or not. I do not know if our paths are chosen by a god or by ourselves. All I know is what goals I set for myself. I know that there is only one thing I really want in this world. I know there is only one thing that the peace seekers before me wanted in this world and in this life. That is a state of the world that cares about one another, a human race that treats each other equally and with compassion. I cannot tell you why I have this goal in life, but I can tell you that I am sure of it, and that I will not be content with life until I know for a fact that I have had a part in the peace of the world. If even just one more step in this amazing challenge. Even if I teach my feelings to others and inspire more to think this way, for every mind that truly believes in peace is one step closer to actually achieving it.

    We are all one big family, us humans. Sometimes families have fights, and sometimes a family dislikes one another. But if everyone in the world can just realize that we are all here together in this world, as one big family, it would be a big step in achieving peace.

    I do not know much about myself, However I think I found what I am here to do. As hard as I try, I just cannot put in to words how much peace means to me. It is imposable to explain the feelings I have when I see reasons why the world in not coming close to achieving peace. It hurts so badly, yet at the same time it also inspires me to bring peace more and more. I am not a Jedi only because I like the force or because I’m a martial artist or because I like star wars or because it’s a place for me to go to share my thoughts and type my feelings. I am a Jedi because I see a peace seeker in each and every one of you.

    By reading this, you have an understanding of how I feel we can achieve peace, and you just believing in it is a huge step in it. I have a request for you all. Even if peace seems impossible, never give up on it. The only way we can achieve peace is keeping the faith of it, and spreading it to others. There are people with power in this world who think they are the king of it, and have sealed up their minds with concrete. But what if this generation believes peace is possible? What if everyone in our age frame can disregard what the corrupt people are doing and have that faith that is required for peace to be achieved? This could have an amazing impact on the future of the world. This did not work for the hippies because by protesting and raiding. They only created more chaos. If we can keep faith in peace, and at the same time truly understand what peace is, and how it can be achieved, we will have a much better outcome than the hippies of the 60’s.

    So tell your friends, teach your children, practice what you preach. Care not about power, but the harmony, serenity, and happiness that peace can bring to the world. Achieving peace is a team effort, and if we can spread that to our human family, as well as love each other and faith in peace, it will happen.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    What do you think? What are your thoughts on peace? Thanks for reading!

    #150498
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    First off, welcome to the Institute for Jedi Realist Studies James Windu! I hope you enjoy your times on the discussion boards here!!!

    I admire these two readings that you have posted here about peace and the quest for it.  However, I do have several questions regarding what you posted.  You don’t have to answer the questions, as these are just my own opinionated thoughts.

    Quote:
    You would think that a Jedi should know the line right? Heck as a reasonably smart person you should know it.

    I’m assuming here for a second you are talking about the line: “A Jedi should use his powers for defense, never attack” or something to that effect.  One thing I learned very recently about writing posts and lectures is the way you want to reach your audience.  My advice would be not only to write out the line that you are referring to, but also to defend WHY you are using it.  When you get into the game of assuming people know what you are thinking, and even going further to label them as “reasonably smart” it can be a bit overwhelming and deterrent to the message you are trying to give out.  However if you are not talking about that line, then could you please share which one you are referring to?

    Quote:
    In this world there are bad people who want nothing more than going down in history as such. There are people who kill for money, religion, fame, and so many things that are only right in there twisted minds.

    I would have to argue you here.  First off, through my training as a Jedi I believe there are no ‘bad’ people.  There are only people who make choices that seem counter intuitive to our own mind set.  Just because it seems wrong, people tend to fear it and thus it becomes ‘bad’.  Now I’m not saying everything isn’t bad, I’m just trying to point out that we should remain open minded about people and their decisions.  As far as wanting to go down in history as a bad person, do you have any examples? 

    I don’t have a particular quote after that, but your argument about war and peace is interesting.  If we do leave a man to be beaten (man representing anybody under ‘oppression’); then the oppressor will continue on, defying all types of boundaries. 

    However that is all from a big world point of view.  What about in our own life, and our own community? As a JEDI, what can we do to fight for peace on the home front?  It’s great to think about having world peace, but people CAN and DO achieve internal peace and grace; and by taking that and spreading it outwards, in my opinion THAT is how we can begin to achieve something as large as global peace.

    Again, I enjoyed reading what you wrote, and thank you for your contributions to the discussion, I look forward to hearing your response! :meditate

    #150499
    James Windu
    Participant

    thank you for the advice, i will be sure to use it next time. i just thought that if i use more regular terms and use what i am thinking it might result in the desired effect of getting the point across. as for you other point, i agree that my statement was somewhat insensitive on other peoples points of views, but i was writing from my point of view. i was talking about the actions that i think are bad based on how i was raised and the person who i am. this question has something to do with the first one. i wrote this from my stance on the matter, because i am passionate about peace. however i do want to improve my writing skills, and your points have helped a lot. again, thank you for that, and thank you for welcoming me to this institute, i am very excited to be here.

    #150501
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    I guess the whole reason I emphasized on the ‘bad’ thing was even for my own understanding and clarification.  Even I some times witness things that are ‘bad’ but have to remind myself to stay open minded and look at the bigger picture!

    And please keep  sharing your posts, its good for facilitating discussion ;D

    #150583
    Jax
    Keymaster

    This is how I view war vs peace.  War is just a bandaid on a wound, it never addresses the root cause.  It’s effective to the extent that it is the power for those who don’t have the power to rise up and help themselves.  But it doesn’t change the root beliefs that created the situation before.  If it did, anti-semitism wouldn’t exist, Jews, Palestinians, Christians, Muslims, etc wouldn’t keep trying to kill each other.  War doesn’t bring peace, it simply attempts to put an end to violent confrontation.  It’s creates a pause, ideally, where the aggressors are placed on a more even footing with the oppressors, giving them the opportunity to regain the power they’ve lost. But peace…no, that is not the purpose of war.  As Einsein said, a problem is never solved with the same energy that created it.  Peace and war are completely different energies, and thus peace cannot be the direct outcome of war. 

    The key here is the people.  It is the people that must make the decision to own their power, to reclaim it, and hold their oppressors responsible.  Revolutions occur throughout history, with and without war.  Typically they seem to require violent uprising, but that isn’t always the case.  If I were a student of history, I could provide some examples to help me. 

    For instance, how many times has a country stepped in to bring peace to a country, just to have the country return to disorder as soon as they left?  If the oppressed don’t believe they can change their situation, there’s nothing anyone else can do to change this. 

    Simply put, a war can create a space for the oppressed to rise up and create change, but that only happens when the oppressed do so.  If they don’t, the war doesn’t bring any peace at all.  Thus, war doesn’t bring peace, people do. 

    As a side note, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be involved with war.  While active duty, I never deployed, and I was discharged well before our recent wars.  But, if I had deployed I would have gone, knowing that sometimes force is necessary to create enough space for change to occur.  But most of the time, humans resort to war as a solution, rather than realizing it is a bandaid that never addresses the underlying issue.  Humanity, and Jedi, need to educate themselves about this more, learning more about the root cause of conflicts, and working to address those so lasting change can occur.

    Thank you for sharing your ideas!

    #150731
    jedidiahknyte
    Participant
    Quote:

    First off, through my training as a Jedi I believe there are no ‘bad’ people. 

    I have to take exception to this statement. I am a recent participant on these boards, but I have been walking the Jedi Path for about 30 years. It has been my experience in real life that there are indeed bad people. Bad little kids who grow up to be bad adults, and it has nothing to do with their viewpoint, or even really with their environment. They’re just plain bad…irredeemably, absolutely evil. Sociopaths. Recent scientific studies have revealed that even the brains of these people are different.

    Peace can be achieved through war, but only if one side utterly and ruthlessly eradicates the other. I’m not sure that’s a “peace” I could live with…

    #150732
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Bad is a value judgment that changes based on the situation, culture, environment, etc.  What you perceive as a bad person is not universal.  You can see this by comparing societal norms between societies.  Heck, you can start simply with the different laws between countries.  And that’s all from the obvious conscious level.  At the spiritual level, there truly is nothing good or bad, as everything has a purpose from the higher perspective.  Looking individually, good and bad serves no real purpose on a person’s path, instead it’s more useful to ask if something furthers growth or slows it, keeps a person on their ideal path or off it. 

    I’ll let Phoenix clarify on his own as well. 

    Now, all this doesn’t mean you ignore things that you think are not helping people or society, whatever you define as bad.  But it’s important to be careful of judgments such as this.  Judgments limit our ability to see the big picture because we will stop looking for it – we have already judged it after all.  I don’t want to go too far off topic, but hopefully this is enough to trigger some thoughts.

    #150733
    jedidiahknyte
    Participant
    Quote:
    Bad is a value judgment that changes based on the situation, culture, environment, etc.  What you perceive as a bad person is not universal.

    At the spiritual level, there truly is nothing good or bad, as everything has a purpose from the higher perspective. 

    Sorry, Jax, but psychopaths and sociopaths are bad. People who murder other people without remorse are bad. People who lie, cheat, and steal without regard for their victims are bad.

    As far as the spiritual level goes, well, we’ve got the ten commandments, which are the basis for the system of law in almost all cultures..generally speaking, ruthlessly killing another human being for personal gain is regarded as “bad behavior” no matter the culture.

    #150734
    Jax
    Keymaster

    The ten commandments are not spiritual, but religious law.  But let’s take your example and relate it to a concept brought up in this thread.  Is it murder to kill another person without remorse in war?  What’s the difference, someone said it was ok?  Someone told you it was for a good reason?  What if that reason was false, if the very premise for the war was based on a lie (and I’m not referring to any particular war, just the idea)?  What if a person was abused by someone for their entire life, tortured, and they turn around one day and snap and kill their abuser, without remorse, for their own personal gain of freedom from torture?  You cannot make a claim that one kind of murder is right and one is wrong because you do not know what is in the heart and mind of another.  You can know what is ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ for you, because you know your heart and mind.  But even if you were to hear another person speak of their motivations, it doesn’t tell you the truth most of the time.  There’s good research out there that shows that what we think our motivations are, and what they really are, very often to match up in the most mundane things.  It becomes even more drastic when dealing with things such as killing where we can hide our reasons from ourself because they are hard to handle. 

    And what of cultures.  In other countries it is ok to kill your wife, kill your children, if they dishonor the family.  I certainly don’t think that’s a good thing, and that it would be wrong based on my value system, but they don’t.  It’s not a universal concept.  You have many options to decide how to react to this discrepency, just like any other situation.  My goal is simply to help you see that there is an inconsistency with this idea.  Whether you choose to see it is up to you.  :-)

    #150735
    jedidiahknyte
    Participant

    I agree that the Ten Commandments are religious law, which is why I carefully did not capitalize “ten commandments.” I was referring to the general principles. Don’t lie, steal, kill etc. I rather expected you to bring up the idea of a soldier killing in war..it is entirely possible that the killing done in war cannot be morally justified…generally speaking, though, when someone is shooting at you, you tend to shoot back, and “principles of right and wrong” don’t make much difference at the time. The other example you cited, that of someone killing to free themselves from someone abusing them is not the same at all, your argument involves mere semantics. That is “self-defense,” and, as such, is perfectly justifiable. The person being killed in that scenario is clearly “bad.” The statement that there is no “good” or “bad” is patently ridiculous, flies in the face of common sense, and is unsupportable in the “real world.” That “one kind of murder is right and one is wrong” is an inaccurate statement, because every “killing” is not a “murder.” As for the cultures where they stone women to death for “dishonoring the family,” well…culturally speaking, they are not “murdering” her…but IMHO they are, because , also IMHO, their premise is flawed. It should be pointed out that I am only stating my opinion…as are you, and as is every other person here. One’s “opinion” cannot, and should not, be taken as “fact,” because no one can be certain that what they believe is the “absolute truth.” To simply make statements without clarification that it is opinion is to pontificate, which is arrogant.

    Jedi Phoenix, did you have anything to add? Nothing came up on my screen except the already posted quotes… ???

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