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June 22, 2010 at 2:15 pm #155191JaxKeymaster
I’m sorry, you can’t argue that eating trace amounts of bugs in vegetables and grains amounts to more than eating meat. You can claim number, sure, but you can’t claim volume. And volume is what impacts the environment.
And yes, most of the meat you buy in the US is factory farmed, and it doesn’t matter whether we ‘know’ it’s bad to feed animals back to animals, it still happens. There hasn’t been enough pressure on the industry for them to change, for laws to change, or anything else. Change is always slower when it involves hundreds of millions of people instead of the small numbers in virtually any other country. It’s good that McDonalds made that change. There are differences in what restaurants provide everywhere you go. But I doubt that most countries use humane farming as the default. I’ve just heard too many stories to believe that.June 22, 2010 at 8:04 pm #155215MemnoichParticipant
The make no mention of the animals killed by transports, or the plants decimated by acid rain, what about the damage to the environment from all of this. In short, my simplistic opinion, we are all a part of the food chain, and if you want to lesson the impact all around on the environment, eat local, grow your own garden, eat local produce, go to the farmers market’s, buy local meats, if you can’t handle the butchery your self, find a local rancher, or meat dealer. By eating locally you cut down cost’s, transport pollution, and at the same time help your local economy. if the grocery store you go to doesn’t have local, find one that does, and encourage it in others. But most of all, no mater what you eat, show a little respect, it gave it’s life so you may live, the ultimate sacrifice.June 22, 2010 at 10:38 pm #155226StryseParticipantQuote:The make no mention of the animals killed by transports, or the plants decimated by acid rain, what about the damage to the environment from all of this. In short, my simplistic opinion, we are all a part of the food chain, and if you want to lesson the impact all around on the environment, eat local, grow your own garden, eat local produce, go to the farmers market’s, buy local meats, if you can’t handle the butchery your self, find a local rancher, or meat dealer. By eating locally you cut down cost’s, transport pollution, and at the same time help your local economy. if the grocery store you go to doesn’t have local, find one that does, and encourage it in others. But most of all, no mater what you eat, show a little respect, it gave it’s life so you may live, the ultimate sacrifice.
Not to mention… as I’ve been forced into ‘whole foods’ type of grocery shopping these days (my partner is rather intolerant of things like gluten)… the food simply tastes better. I didn’t realize how bland stuff really was until I started paying about twice as much for the food by getting it from places like Whole Foods or Wild Oats. Its true no matter what kingdom of life your food is coming from. Its just plain yummier. Not that this corporeal form lived during them… but I really really miss the old days when i could stop by the local butcher and pick up a fresh cut of meat on my way home from work.June 22, 2010 at 11:36 pm #155228Kol DrakeModerator
My kids are anti tomato… since they have never gotten to taste a ‘home grown, vine ripened’ one… totally different taste.
And, yep… fresh cuts are nice.
Waaaaay back during my tour in Germany, downtown Frankfurt had a butcher shop with meat hanging from hooks.
Had more then one or two double takes before I figured out they were skinned rabbits and not skinned cats. :'(
Wild fowl and sides of BIG. Odd yet interesting.June 23, 2010 at 1:29 am #155233renParticipantQuote:I’m sorry, you can’t argue that eating trace amounts of bugs in vegetables and grains amounts to more than eating meat. You can claim number, sure, but you can’t claim volume. And volume is what impacts the environment.
You don’t seem to understand my point. Some people turn vegetarian for ethical reasons, mot specifically, because they don’t want animals to suffer. However eating more vegetables causes more animals to suffer. they are very small animals, but they come in large quantity. A whole cow can last quite a bit of time, but only counts as one animal, while your broccoli might contain a few insects. As I said, I don’t care (I kill many insects when i walk around every day), but this makes the “because i dont want animals to suffer” reason utterly pointless. Insects are an incredibly good source of food (who would have thought) and are pretty good for health anyway. People should eat more of them.Quote:My kids are anti tomato… since they have never gotten to taste a ‘home grown, vine ripened’ one… totally different taste.
I totally agree. There’s nothing like a beautiful tomato still warm from the sun. Not only does the tomato itself give satisfaction, but on top of that, the whole “come home, go through the garden, find a tomato and eat it” experience feels particularly more awesome than going to the kitchen and opening the fridge. Oh and the smell is great too. It’s a shame your kids can’t experience that. It’s an enjoyable and healthy experience. If more kids did this, they would eat a lot more veg and happily do so, not just because “you have to finish your plate”.July 30, 2018 at 5:39 pm #194895JordanParticipant
It seems that a large theme of this topic thread is that more animals die from vegan than meat eaters because growing crops causes the death of small animals and insects but everyone here fails to realize is that every farms animal does not just magically appear. ANIMALS EAT CROPS TOO!!! in fact 2/3 of the crops grown in this world are grown for animal feed. by eating a vegan diet, you are cutting down the amount of crop farming land required for your diet by about half. In addition, all that land would be used to restore the amazon rainforest which is a major contributor to global warming or instead of feeding those excess crops to animals, we could feed it to the hungry and SOLVE WORLD HUNGER. If you are not vegan, you are not JediJuly 31, 2018 at 4:58 am #194897Kol DrakeModeratorQuote:“If you are not vegan, you are not Jedi” — Jordan
.Quote:” ….only a Sith deals in absolutes…. ” — Obi Won Kenobi
Knowing how humans work (in general), I bet a dozen donuts — if we stopped ‘farming’ / raising cattle, goats, sheep, horses and pigs — ‘mankind’ would not suddenly turn it all back into farmable land. It would become more strip malls, concrete jungles of mirrored hi-rises, etc. Once the human infestation has encroached into an area, it seldom if ever goes ‘back to Nature’.August 1, 2018 at 8:29 am #194898Kol DrakeModerator
On a slightly more serious note —
Every Vegan, vegetarian, etc. that I known has to take daily supplements for the minerals and vitamins they lack — in particulare, B12. Some few don’t eat a balanced menu so they also have to mess with calcium. One might argue that it says that something is wrong with their diet. That ‘going full V is not enough to sustain the human body.
Now, I love animals, but I also eat meat. I am an omnivore just as my body is designed to be. Pretending that humans are not and deluding yourself into another way of life is not being your true self. As long as animals are specifically bred, and dealt with humanely I have no issue. And as for the old argument if you can mot kill it you should not eat it: If we go back to our human beginnings, we see that man lived in working groups, gatherers, child raising, cooks, hunters etc. Not everyone hunted and killed.
Now… there are some Vegans out there that will say — by gosh, I’ve been eating vegan for 30+ years and I’m in better health than you nasty meat eaters. And, if you only were as enlighten as ‘I’, then you would save the world as well as your own soul. My hat is off to anyone who can eat total vegan. Me, I’ll have the ocassional steak and sauteed mushrooms or a pizza sprinkled with pepperoni and sausage. But, that’s MY omnivore nature. You be you and eat how you wish. I’ll be gnawing on that pizza across the room.
And to paraphrase a friend — “If we are not meant to eat animals, then why are they made of meat?August 8, 2018 at 3:26 am #194904StormyKatParticipant
I will admit I am jumping in here without having made it all the way through the other posts.
I have been a vegetarian for 19 years. (Wow!) I gave up meat partially as a measure of desperation because I was not comfortable with dissecting a baby pig in high school. But I have never been much for meat, especially once I learned where it came from. (That was slightly traumatic to me, but that’s another story). That being said, I am definitely more a “meat and potatoes” kind of lady. I think I grew up on chicken nuggets. So adjusting my diet has been a challenge. I have not always been a healthy vegetarian-too many carbs. I am still not doing my best, but I am expanding my dietary horizons.
Personally, I feel it is ethically wrong to eat meat raised on a factory farm and slaughtered in a slaughter house. The fear those animals experience waiting in line for death makes me cringe. The conditions the animals are raised in, the abuse neglect they go through is awful. Then having them shoved on packed trucks and shipped cross country is just appalling. I am a highly empathetic person and highly sensitive person, so any discussion of suffering en-masse sends me towards depression.
That being said, I do not condemn anyone who still eats meat for whatever reasons. I take joy when my whole family eats a vegetarian meal. I personally eat vegan whenever possible (which is tricky cause I have a sweet tooth and no self-restraint). Would I rather all people be vegetarian? Absolutely; especially with all the environmental implications that we are being to see from raising meat. In the mean time I try to gently discuss with people where their food comes from, and just try to get people to think about it. That bacon you are in love with was once a baby pig. If you have an issue with it, then maybe you need to rethink your dietary choices. I try to never come off as judgy or preachy, I just want people to be aware.
I also work at a veterinarian’s office and am slave to several feline overlords. Ironically the cats who run my life are obligate carnivores, which puts me in a difficult place at times. Those poor animals raised in the factory farms and slaughter houses are feeding my beloved pets. My feral cats like to bring me “presents.” I have learned that nature is cruel. There is much suffering and that is just how the world was created. Some animals must eat meat to survive, which means that other animals must die. I struggle with this when I really sit down and think about it. But I am not going to judge a lion for hunting a zebra, that is both the lion and the zebra’s role in life.
I feel that part of my role in life, is to help minimize suffering that other’s experience. I am a nurturer, a care giver, a lover. And for me that means not eating meat.October 18, 2018 at 6:11 am #195140JaxKeymaster
I still struggle with eating meat. I enjoy it. Sometimes my body really wants it. But I can’t afford humanely raised and butchered meat. I try not to eat an excessive amount at least. It’s how I make myself feel better until I can learn to do better.
You have my respect for doing this for 19 years!
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