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  • #139245
    Brandel Valico
    Participant

    As I noted at JEDI Politics are always a touchy subject I know and I’m not looking to start an argument on actual politics. I’m simply curious if you feel this law suit is a hoax. I found no evidence of it with a admittedly very quick search. Also for the record I’ll be voting Libertarian or another Independent this year so I’m not for either McCain or Obama.

    http://right-mind.us/blogs/blog_0/archive/2008/10/13/63650.aspx

    So what do you guys think Hoax or valid?

    #149683
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I think the anti-Obama camp (for lack of a better descriptor) has shown they will stop at nothing to spread lies or manipulate truth to further their own agenda.  I would ask first, why was this person even looking for this information?  He tries to claim being a lifelong democrat and stuff, which makes me think he’s trying to distract us from his motives. 

    So much of the evidence here is circumstantial.  Stories from family members, documents that could easily be lied on or faked which allow him to make this claim.  For instance, his grandmother has a lot to gain in status by saying she was in the delivery room when he was born, and Kenyans would want to believe that because it increases their prestige.  I don’t see this as maliscious, just natural human behavior.  Confusing a hospital name is easy to do.  Just look at how many times people misspeak, even (or especially) in politics or interviews.  In addition, who knows what the Obama camp thinks about this lawsuit.  They may think it’s just another ploy to distract them from the campaign and have counseled him to avoid it and they’d take care of it.  They put his birth certificate online, and that would be enough in their minds to move forward and let the lawyers take care of the rest. 
    As for the documents in indonesia or wherever it was, what’s stopping the stepfather from putting down what the government wants to hear?  If the father is a citizen, they are probably taking him at his word that his son is his.  If they needed documents, I’m sure it wasn’t hard to get fake ones.  And, if there’s no record of going through immigration upon return, then he’s not a naturalized citizen.  He’s still the natural born citizen he’s claimed.

    And really, this is the kicker for me.  Hillary wanted to be president as bad as anyone perhaps ever has, yet she never questioned his citizenship.  With all the ways she tried to win in the primaries, why not pull this little surprise out of the hat?  This person would probably say because the DNC and all democrats are in on this, but that’s bunk.  How many times to things just ‘slip out’ by a low level aid, who ends up being the scape goat to disseminate information that isn’t officially sanctioned?  I just don’t buy it.  They’re pulling together little pieces of information that can add up in many ways. 

    But you know, I don’t care.  I’ve always thought that someone who was born to US citizens (or a citizen) on foreign soil and then raised in the US should be eligible for presidency.  Yet according to our constitution, written far before they could probably even imagine the ease of worldwide travel we have today, forbids it.  I think it’s time for some updating.  But I don’t view all foreigners as a threat, like some other people do, so I don’t expect to see any change for a very long time.  Which is ok, it’s not a huge priority for me, just something I think is outdated and doesn’t necessarily serve our country anymore.  :-)

    My overall thought of this is I wonder what this guys big issue actually is.  He’s really pissed off about someone he thinks could be foreign born (yet raised by a US citizen) becoming the president.  His motives are very questionable.

    #149684
    Brandel Valico
    Participant

    Very interesting thoughts Jax 

    I defiantly agree that it seems weird that Hilary wouldn’t use this bomb if it was valid
    As well as the point about how he does seem a bit obsessive about the issue. Though if it is true it would defiantly be a major sticky issue and would cause serious issues for Obama. I am curious why Obama simply won’t provide the proof as McCain did when his own citizenship was questioned.

    #149685
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Like I said above (though probably not clearly) is that it’s never as simple as they make it sound.  It’s not like this guy talked directly to Obama.  My guess is, the lawyers in his camp were served the papers, they said they would take care of it.  Since they had already posted his birth certificate online, they called the matter closed as far as how much Obama had to address it, and left him to run his campaign.  Then they tried to just make this go away so as to not distract the campaign further.  From their perspective this would be a frivolous lawsuit, not worth their time to address more than releasing the birth certificate. 

    And perhaps he doesn’t have all those documents.  I mean, who really has their medical records from childhood?  Hospitals are only required to maintain those for 7 years I believe, and after that they can get rid of them.  Unless a parent keeps the bills or something as part of the childhood memory book, why would anyone have them?  How many of us have our medical records?  The only ones I know that are easy to get are my military records, and those of the past 7 years that were kept on file.  but I wouldn’t expect to find any from my childhood once I ceased to be a patient at those offices. 

    #149686
    inari
    Participant

    I’ve always wondered why a country that considers people to supposedly be born equal to each other has this citizenship law still on the books. In any other country that I can think of it would be illegal under equal opportunity laws at the very least (not to mention anti-discrimination).

    Hopefully, sooner or later the constitution will be amended in this regard.

    #152684
    Setanaoko
    Participant

    It probably has something to do with loyalty.  If you were born to another country, you might have more loyalty to them than to the nation you are serving.  Which would be a bad thing for the states.

    #152686
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Loyalty is proven and not automatic.  Look at all the people born here who ran away to foreign countries to be trained for wars in africa and the middle east.  I think if someone has proved their loyalty, taken an oath, and especially when they were raised as an american, then it doesn’t matter.  But that’s not what the law says. :-)

    #152688
    Setanaoko
    Participant

    lol, I never said it was foolproof ;).  But people tend to think it is ;).

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