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  • #139487
    David Pierce
    Participant

      I have decided to back of form the strong desire to work toward a physical location now.  I simply do not have the proper diplomacy, emotional control, or point of view.  I still feel ( as I did the day I started looking for Jedi in reality ) the Force pulling me in that direction.  It is almost irresistible.  But I will try to at least complete a couple of years training before I let that beast lose again. 

      In the mean time it should not hurt much to brain storm on some necessary topics for when the time comes.  Thus I put forth the following question.

      How would a physical Jedi Academy sustain its self and the Jedi?

    I ask that for the purpose of this question you assume that the Academy has already been built.  I would also ask you to stretch your imagination and assume that being a Jedi is a full time Job, and thus the council or academy would need to see to the necessities of the Jedi who graduate.  Such as living quarters, food, mission expenditures, etc.

      Lets try, if we can, not to debate how the Academy or council came to be or what their function is.  Let us just attempt to look at sustainability after the fact.

    For profit?  Non Profit?  Donations? Grants? Government programs for religious organizations? Just topic idea starters… try to be as specific as you can. Donations form who?  Non profit doing what? 

    Thank you for your efforts. 

    #151806
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    Two words come to mind first: leadership and training.

    I understand your motives there, but my thinking is that these answers actually MAY be contingent on some form of leadership within the Academy, such as a Jedi Council or something there of.  Here at the Institute, we don’t have a council but rather a Principal and Vice Principal (who interchange/share and cooperativley work with their roles anyways  :P ) I think it would be up to them, polling of course from the jedi body what decisions would be made in order to sustain a Jedi community.  Because realistically, we would have to start from the ground up and that would begin with the physical building.  How would we pay for that? a loan? grants? in other words, money we would eventually pay back? If thats the case, then donations would definitely sound nice. 

    And of course there is training.  I think, honestly, you are right, we should all focus on training right now.  Yes, it is nice to have a vision, goal, or dream about a physical Jedi Academy, and I think if you ask any Jedi Member on any board they are more than willing to see that come to life one day.  Yet I think its important for us to focus on training ourselves and our connection with the Force.  Besides it wouldn’t hurt to look at what the Temple symbolizes to you.  What does the Temple do for us, if it was built now, that we can’t do already? We still meet at least twice a year offline, as well as use our lives as daily training grounds.  Yes the temple would be nice for us to be grouped together, but right now, its best to stretch our imagination beyond even that, and see what we can do now with out its physical prescence.  Just some thoughts, but definitely a good goal to have ;D ;D ;D

    :meditate
    Phoenix

    #151810
    David Pierce
    Participant

      Your view point is on solid ground phoenix.  I agree much with your line of thinking, however for this exorcise I have asked that we try to look past the questions of “how did it get there” and “what is its purpose”.  I would like to focus on sustainability after the fact.  Thank you for your thoughts. 

    #151815
    inari
    Participant

    Hi David,

    This question has been knocking around the forums for as long as I’ve been a member of the community. I haven’t seen very many satisfactory answers but I’ve had a few ideas I’ve shared before and I’ll share them again with you.

    It’s a complicated question, and I don’t think that the focus upon a physical location to train is the first step.

    Issue 1 – Getting sufficient Jedi in one place to warrant a Temple. This in itself is an enormous task, getting people who are willing to move from where they are, agreeing upon a location and having local jobs/schools etc is a factor. Even for those who are willing to move, they may not be able to afford to, or may not get a greencard (my hubby and I spent several years trying to move to the US), or may not want to move away from their family and friends.

    There is the option of setting up a local Jedi chapter and working your butt off to find people in your area who may be interested in the Jedi path. The Jedi Resource Center can give you some tips on doing this.

    Issue 2 – What sort of format would these Jedi live in. I can think of several options off hand. One is that they aim to live reasonably close to each other (say, within a few kilometers) and meet at each others houses. They can support each other in their training and service and hire a venue to train in (say a local hall). If there are enough of them they could look to buy a local venue for this purpose. For example, near me there is a modern church building with some adjacent buildings that has been abandoned. I think that would make a good temple (it’s not very churchy looking and has necessary facilities).

    Another option could be that the Jedi could buy a property and build a community on that property where they live together. There are lots of this type of community in the US, they are usually called intentional communities and if you google that you should find some to look at. This is an option I favour personally.

    Yet another option is that a few Jedi get together and buy a small apartment building to live in that (for example with 2 – 4 apartments) and have shared training facilities there.

    The downside to these suggestions is that it relies on two things that I haven’t seen yet in the community, that is a willingness to move and to cooperate with each other.

    Issue 3 – What would these Jedi do and how would they support themselves (these are probably tied together).
    It is my personal opinion that anyone who believes that a Jedi community is going to get enough in the way of grants and donations to support themselves anytime soon is naive. Let’s have a look at some options.

    – Charge students for training. I’m expecting you to kick up here David because of your posts in your original Introduction. It is a fact though that most martial arts schools in the past (China, Japan), many shamans taking apprentices (e.g. South America), many monasteries and nunneries, all required students to either pay their instructor, or make a donation to the order upon the entry of the novice, usually in the form of the dowry or wealth that would have come to that person upon their marriage or inheritance. This was one of the ways these groups supported themselves. Shamans in South American required a ‘gift’ from their students, I read once that two healthy llamas was a good payment. I’m not saying I want to do this, but it is an option.

    – Be as self-sufficient as possible. The Jedi would grow at least some of their own food and otherwise aim to require less money to pay bills etc.

    – I think that most Jedi will have to work to earn money. They could aim to work in industries that support their Jedi path, e.g. health, law and order, public service etc; or own their own businesses that do this. I personally switched to the health field from Information Technology, to do this. Jedi doing this might be willing to pay a small donation of their wages/profits to the community as a whole (similar to what some churches do). Then those Jedi who work full time to support the community could receive sufficient renumeration to at least survive, or could be supported in other ways such as fresh produce from those who grow it.

    – Fund-raising activities could be undertaken, the same as for other groups.

    How would these Jedi serve the greater community? – I think that it would be most beneficial if Jedi who have similar aims and goals of service worked together. For example I’m a bit of a greenie at heart and am working to make my family and the my local area more sustainable and self-sufficient, so I could work with like minded Jedi on that. Or with another healer (that WOULD be nice).

    How would these Jedi be organised? – This one is a real headache.  Most people in the Jedi community are fiercely independent and get very indignant when they discover that other people are investigating or discussing this issue. I’ve been part of groups that have a couple of times workshopped on what would be needed to organise the Jedi and when people do this they tend to get treated very poorly by some members of the community. The efforts always fail because of this and because it is difficult to keep the momentum up online.

    #151816
    inari
    Participant

    Above post continued.
    Organisation, and the lack of it, is a critical flaw in our community. Those with the leadership ability are spread too thinly.

    So, lets go back to your original post David and see if I’m answering your questions….

    Quote:
    I ask that for the purpose of this question you assume that the Academy has already been built.  I would also ask you to stretch your imagination and assume that being a Jedi is a full time Job, and thus the council or academy would need to see to the necessities of the Jedi who graduate.  Such as living quarters, food, mission expenditures, etc.

    Looking at this part, I would say that firstly it is built upon the assumption that a real Academy has been built, and that it is exactly the same model as in the movies. Would you REALLY want a council telling you what to do all the time David? Why should everything be the responsibility of just a few? One thing I try to teach my students is to take responsibility for themselves.

    But, to answer the question, I would suggest that graduated Jedi look to work at least part time in some income generating fashion, whether directly Jedi related or not. Preferably for a Jedi business that could give them flexibility of leave for ‘missions’ and training. They could then pay a portion of their wages to support the Academy. Jedi business could have profits go back to the Academy to offset expenditures. Some self-sufficiency and use of barter would supply some needs. This is a little like how some monasteries used to run, just think of the liqueurs and illuminated manuscripts monks made (and still do).

    In regards, to missions, then budgets would be needed to keep expenditure to a minimum, depending of course on what you had in mind for ‘missions’. Jed could volunteer with other agencies too to minimise our own costs (e.g. rescue workers go with Red Cross).

    I hope this gives you some more ideas.

    Inari.

    #151820
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    Wow Inari! Those are a lot of points :-X

    All I know David is this, I am totally and completly all for a real Jedi Academy/Temple.  But I’ll stick to what I said earlier, at least the most important thing to do right now is training.  In the words of Qui Gon: “We shall wait until an oppurtunity presents itself”  I think though this is an excellent discussion.

    But to stay on track with what you were saying if it was already built, that’s where I would come from; and piggy back off Inari’s idea of students being self sufficient.  I want to open up my own retreat center anyways, and provide spiritual counseling.  Right now I’m just pursuing a psych degree.  I was going to do Nursing.  Yet I pursuing this career because this is what I would want to do as a Jedi, be that spiritual guide/aide/counselor!

    *bows*
    Phoenix

    #151825
    David Pierce
    Participant
    Quote:
    But, to answer the question, I would suggest that graduated Jedi look to work at least part time in some income generating fashion, whether directly Jedi related or not. Preferably for a Jedi business that could give them flexibility of leave for ‘missions’ and training. They could then pay a portion of their wages to support the Academy. Jedi business could have profits go back to the Academy to offset expenditures. Some self-sufficiency and use of barter would supply some needs. This is a little like how some monasteries used to run, just think of the liqueurs and illuminated manuscripts monks made (and still do).

    In regards, to missions, then budgets would be needed to keep expenditure to a minimum, depending of course on what you had in mind for ‘missions’. Jed could volunteer with other agencies too to minimise our own costs (e.g. rescue workers go with Red Cross).

      Thank you, I had not thought of part time work.  A very grounded idea.  I know this topic is the source of alot of feelings within the community.  Even though I just arrived I can see how it has been a tug of war for some time now.  I find it to be a telling topic though.  Just watch everyone get so riled up and lose all diplomacy, yet insist that they have control over their feelings and that they are truly a Jedi.  Its no bother to me, however I do not think it helps our reputation.

      Perhaps it does not mater, perhaps it is for the best.  When one or more physical sites are up and running the naysayers can choose to join in then.  They will however lose out on being involved in the creation and shaping of the systems that will most likely solidify our reputation with the rest of the world, for better or worse, but as I said.  Perhaps that is for the best. 

      I had a thought that I will research tomorrow.  How did/have Buddhist temples get built, and sustained.  Who pays for their food, rent, etc.  There may be models for a system that will work for us already out there.  Maybe this is a good time for me to go to my local Buddhist temple and ask them how they got started.  However I am more concerned with training and learning my self, so that I have the wisdom and insight needed to be wise and insightful.
     

    I appreciate both of you setting aside your feelings on the subject to supply some positive ideas.     

    #151826
    inari
    Participant

    I don’t get riled up over this topic, it’s more it makes me feel a little sad because there is so much potential there, and so little action. One of the hopes I have most cherished for years is this very one.

    #151830
    Angelus
    Moderator
    Quote:
    How did/have Buddhist temples get built, and sustained.  Who pays for their food, rent, etc.  There may be models for a system that will work for us already out there.

    One could also look at how some of the Christian churches operate. I have the advantage of working for one such church. It is often overlooked that churches themselves are non-profit. There are things to consider like the operating budget (which include things like building maintenance, staff salary, programs, etc) , planning, and having a vision to grow into over the coming year. We rely on the donations or “pledges” of our community to keep us afloat.

    I’ve also been considering Inari’s suggestion on generating income with my local chapter of Jedi. Each could work to create revenue where a portion can be given to support the whole. As some are more focused on the martial arts, they could open up their own schools and donate some of the proceeds to the great Jedi community. Others in the group are more healers and are thinking of creating a holistic health care center. Again, portions would go to benefit the larger charity of the Jedi.

    So I do think it is possible. It almost seems like these little communities need to be able to sustain themselves before we can become more organized and have a more global impact.

    #151832
    Beral Khan
    Participant

    I suppose students can give up all of their earthly possessions that could be sold for the temple and then could sell flowers for donations?

    One of the things I would like to ask is the purpose of a centralized building.  Why do we have need of a building and strong central organization?

    Is there more value in that when compared to what we offer here? 

    I ask this because currently, do we not benefit from the wisdom and work of people from all over the planet?

    Would we not lose this if we has one central building in which to work out of?

    I can see where the glamour of a temple can be appealing.  However, if we were to learn something from the SWU, could it not be that it was that very centralization that brought an end to the Jedi as seen in the pre-Empire days?  Once organized in such a manner, Jedi would be more susceptable to influences from the outside – like that of the republic – would they not?

    Does it not seem a better path to be shining lights within our own communities off line?  To say, ‘I am Jedi’ to people is to allow them to assume much.  However, is it not better just to BE Jedi and BE the example we want the world to be?

    I am struggling with the need/desire that seems to continually haunt us as a community to have a building/central group.

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