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    This thread has had me thinking more today about our ongoing discussion of training and knowledge standards, and whether a daylong “slap a bandaid on it, call 911, and wait for the paramedics” first aid course is really sufficient field medical training for a Knight, to effectively treat ourselves or others. I recertified shortly after enrolling here — reminds me, I’m almost due for another recert — and I recall being extraordinarily disappointed with the way the knowledge given in a Red Cross first aid course has gradually declined over the years since I got my first first aid card.

    Please help me understand why I’m wrong, and why we should not be looking toward a higher level of training for knighthood.


    Awesome timing. I just asked about this in the standards group that is discussing things across the community. From that discussion:

    The first aid certification I got was a joke. It was basically how to clean up blood and use AED. I got much more out of my first aid classes in boot camp. I do plan to look into something more substantial in the future when I have the time and money to do so. For those in the know, is there a good first aid certification out there that doesn’t cost a lot? A weekend course sort of a thing? It seems like it’s either useless or a semester or longer program.

    The first aid skills are what we want, the source of the certification wasn’t really determined yet. I’m hoping to have some better sources soon since I agree, the Red Cross is a poor source of this training. It’s disappointing. Yet we can’t require a long, expensive course. There are online certification programs which don’t seem to be too impressive. This is definitely not a problem we saw coming when we set the requirement. We may need to keep it just CPR for now, with the minimal first aid they provide, and when there’s a good option require people gain it in a reasonable time frame. Or learn what we can online and be able to demonstrate it.

    Kol Drake

    Seems like the Boy Scout First Aid merit badge requirements are right up the Jedi alley…

    First Aid requirements


    1 – Satisfy your counselor that you have current knowledge of all first-aid requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class ranks.

    2 – Do the following:

    Explain how you would obtain emergency medical assistance from your home, on a wilderness camping trip, and during an activity on open water.

    Explain the term triage.

    Explain the standard precautions as applied to bloodborne pathogens.

    Prepare a first-aid kit for your home. Display and discuss its contents with your counselor.

    3 – Do the following:

    Explain what action you should take for someone who shows signals of shock, for someone who shows signals of a heart attack, and for someone who shows signals of stroke.

    Identify the conditions that must exist before performing CPR on a person. Then demonstrate proper technique in performing CPR using a training device approved by your counselor.

    Explain the use of an automated external defibrillator (AED).

    Show the steps that need to be taken for someone suffering from a severe cut on the leg and on the wrist. Tell the dangers in the use of a tourniquet and the conditions under which its use is justified.

    Explain when a bee sting could be life threatening and what action should be taken for prevention and for first aid.

    Explain the symptoms of heatstroke and what action should be taken for first aid and for prevention.

    4 – Do the following:

    Describe the signals of a broken bone. Show first-aid procedures for handling fractures (broken bones), including open (compound) fractures of the forearm, wrist, upper leg, and lower leg using improvised materials.

    Describe the symptoms and possible complications and demonstrate proper procedures for treating suspected injuries to the head, neck, and back. Explain what measures should be taken to reduce the possibility of further complicating these injuries.

    5 – Describe the symptoms, proper first-aid procedures, and possible prevention measures for the following conditions:

    Bruises, strains, sprains
    Abdominal pain
    Broken, chipped, or loosened tooth
    Knocked out tooth
    Muscle cramps

    6 – Do TWO of the following:

    If a sick or an injured person must be moved, tell how you would determine the best method. Demonstrate this method.

    With helpers under your supervision, improvise a stretcher and move a presumably unconscious person.

    With your counselor’s approval, arrange a visit with your patrol or troop to an emergency medical facility or through an American Red Cross chapter for a demonstration of how an AED is used.

    ((Wonder if a firehouse might give instructions since they do ‘on the scene’ type aid?))

    Teach another Scout a first-aid skill selected by your counselor.


    More then I had to ‘do’ for Army basic and advanced training for ‘field aid’. Of course, when bullets are flying, it is more about slapping a med pack on and tying it off and yelling for a medic and not about each and every ground pounder having to ‘do’ M.A.S.H. style meatball surgery on the spot.

    The Scouts don’t really have a version of the Army’s old NBC training (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) like the stuff we covered overseas. Guess these days it’s CBRN — Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear.


    ^ This? More than I learned in the course I took in 2010.

    I agree, this is a fairly comprehensive list of desirable skills. Poisoning, concussion, and GSW are the only missing things I see at a glance, though because I am certainly no expert there are likely more.


    More than one person has mentioned wanting to write a first aid course. I think this is the way we need to go. Develop an online course. Use pictures and video to show application of skills. When we do an in person test, demonstrate. How does that sound? Also, we can do class as part of gatherings so people get hands on skills and refreshers.

    MJ Hannigan

    Too bad many who claim to be jedi are not able to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

    Lets be honest we have more over weight games in our community then anything else. I have pushed the concepts of physical training and martial art studies for years now but only few have picked up that challange most are too lazy and complain out such things so in truth this topic is another dead horse that is not worth the time and effort to respond to it.


    I don’t mind that we have some in our community that are overweight. It is my hope that the drive to be a knight will encourage them to train to become fit so that they have a healthier lifestyle and are able to help others. I know many who have picked up the pursuit of martial arts and/or train on their own because they want to be better Jedi.

    I am so proud of my padawan. She has progressed to where she now works out on her own and does it even when she doesn’t want to because she knows it is good for her. I, myself, have taken on Kit’s challenge at JUST Jedi to participate in her Spring Physical Challenge.

    Of course it may that I am part of such communities like the Institute and the Chicago Jedi that have standards why I don’t see as much of the downfall that others have seen. We will continue to push others to be better. Furthermore, we will do so by being the example.


    Many are training in martial arts as they are able, based on the situations in their life. Training to become a Knight takes many years. It’s not easy to fit in everything at once. So long as people have goals and are working toward them, I have no problem with it either.

    We’re still working out all the standards for each rank. It’ll take a while to finish fleshing them out, but the physical side is in no way being ignored. That’s why there’s this thread, to get the perspective of anyone who wishes to weigh in. But it is a brainstorming thread. It is not a place for judgment, as that runs counter to the goal of the brainstorming process.


    That IS a good looking lesson plan (on the First Aide Bit). I’ve been trying to get EMT Han_Solo/TJ Crennan at the FA to write one up for a few years…and now he will be deploying to the Middle East shortly.

    Dogan Nar II

    I think a good thing under Warriorship would be nonverbal skills. Deescalization. This isn’t something I see discussed a lot of times. Being able to talk your way out of a fight. Also part of that is the understanding of when to fight and when to talk/not fight. If you’re at a bar/club/whatever and someone wants to fight you, walk away. Talk them down. Through LE, I’ve been trained in CIT/Critical Incident Team which is basically talking someone down. I’ve also been trained in MI/Motivational Interviewing which is basically taking a problem that someone has then working around to a positive outcome while making them think it was their idea–asking questions to get them oriented to concluding that a positive outcome for themselves is the best idea. Verbal Judo is a great place to start, there are tons of resources out there. A lot of it kind of comes down to manipulation, but in a good way. Learning to use your words in a way that you can calm a situation, if you’re good enough you can make them come to that result on their own which will be a lot more effective than “making” them calm down.

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