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  • #139881
    Setanaoko
    Participant

    Recently, Miles (a Sith Realist) came onto Coelescere and asked some questions regarding our discussion on what a Jedi is.  So, I wanted to pose the question (that he alluded to, but did not out right say):

    In up to two sentences, how would you define a “Jedi Realist”?

    #155665
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    Not sure if you caught the posts on this at ‘Living the Jedi Way’ though some responses are more then two sentences.  :P

    #155668
    Anonymous

    Hard to put in two sentences. A jedi realist  applies the philosophy of the fictional Jedi to everyday life, also expanding and developing the philosophy, believing in the Force trying to view the world objectively, applying their knowledge for the good of Humanity.

    #155669
    Setanaoko
    Participant

    Forgot to put up my definition:

    A Jedi is a caretaker of the commonly accepted idea of “light” in society (either spiritually and/or physically speaking), guided by “the Force”/Divine.

    Kol, those are great ways of describing it, but I wanted to see how people would narrow it down to two sentences or less ;).

    #155670
    Jax
    Keymaster

    As I’ve stated before I stand by the definition created previously.  But what I wonder is, why are we asked to define Jedi realists when we came first in many ways?  Shouldn’t the other groups have to define what they think a jedi is and why they felt they had to create a separate path from it? ;-)

    #155672
    jdmcowan
    Participant

    Interesting idea, Jax.  I agree that it is necessary for the Sith to define themselves in contrast to the Jedi, but to do so they will need to understand what a Jedi is.  Also, to echo your question back to you… There are many similar groups from all over the world that existed long before anyone had even heard the word “Jedi”.  Don’t we have to define how we are different from them and why we had to create a separate path from them?

    In a way, “Jedi” is a philosophy.  Here, on Earth we tend to think of philosophy as being the purview of religions.  Though, I would say that most real world religions are defined more by their history than by their philosophy.  For example Christians disagree greatly on many things, but all share a common history.  Similarly, I think “Jedi” is differentiated more by its history than by its beliefs.

    In the fiction, it seems that Jedi are defined only by their membership within the Jedi Order.  However, the Order had requirements to be a member and thus to be called “Jedi”.  You must have some level of ability in interacting with the Force and you must undergo some amount of training in Jedi philosophy, Jedi mores, lightsabers, and how to use the Force.  Members were often called Jedi even before being tested in these areas, but it was common to, at some point test the members.

    I think the same definition holds up in the real world.  I am not in favor of individuals calling themselves “Jedi”.  They should only be called “Jedi” because they are a part of a group that calls it’s members Jedi.  It might be an online group (like this institution), or it might be an offline group (like our Chicago Jedi group).  I don’t think such a group should just accept anyone as a Jedi – I think the groups should require some level of committment to the “path” before they will call the person “Jedi”.

    Thus my one sentence definition of “Jedi Realist” would be:  “A committed and recognized member of an organization which bases its philosophy and history on the fictional Jedi Order from the Star Wars series of books and movies.”  I’m not sure that answer would satisfy Miles, though, since it sounds like he might be looking for a deeper understanding of what differentiates Jedi and Sith.

    The problem comes in that there is no one “Jedi Order” or “Jedi Temple” to set the standards for us all.  You will find a variety of philosophies, mores, physical training, and Force training and almost all “Jedi” groups accept people who have not yet shown any apptitude for interacting with the Force.  And while I’m sure there are a number of beliefs and teachings that are extremely common amoung the different groups, I’d bet that, beyond the existence of a “Force”, there is not one belief or teaching that exists in EVERY group that calls itself “Jedi”.

    I think in most “Jedi” groups you will find a belief that decisions should be made without regard for personal desires.  They often believe that there are absolute ethics that take precedence even when the immediate outcome is negative.  To contrast, I would guess that most groups that call themselves “Sith” believe that all decisions should be made to fulfill personal desires.  To them, morality and service would be tools that can be used to get others to help you achieve your goals.

    But I don’t know that I can understand the Sith – either fictional or real – so I’d love to hear more thoughts on what differentiates the two.

    Zen-Ryo

    #155673
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    Jedi Realist = Inspired by the Jedi of the Star Wars movies, members are unified by their belief and observance of the Force in Life and the Universe at Large.  Extrapolated from the movies are lessons, concepts, and teachings derived from various ‘real world’ faiths, philosophies, and/or religions which are deemed equivalent to what was presented and/or implied.

    *****

    How are Sith different from Jedi?

    For the most part, the Jedi believe that the path to the Force is through contemplation, serenity, and inner balance. By disciplining themselves to remain calm no matter what is happening around them, a Jedi can access and use the power of the Force.  The Jedi regard the power of the Force with respect and responsibility. A Jedi can use the Force as well as be used by the Force… both tool and guiding force.

    The Sith, according to the movies and books on the other hand, have learned to unlock the power of the Force in a completely different way. Rather than accessing the power of the Force through inner peace, the Sith have learned to tap the power of the Force by giving into extreme emotion. By letting feelings like anger or fear take over, the Sith can use emotion as a conduit to channel the power of the Force.

    There is a common misconception that the Sith access the Force through evil or that being a Sith Lord automatically means that you are evil. This is not true. Any extreme emotion can access the Force. The essence of the Sith’s power is in passion, not evil. Passion can take the form of joy or love as well as anger or hatred.

    Sith are typically seen as ‘evil’ in that they are often blinded by their passion or corrupted by the power granted to them by the Force.  A Sith Lord considers total, absolute power and control as ‘the logical thing to strive for’ if it will ensure a stable, controlled populace/world… for the ‘greater good’ of all.  Vlad the Impaler comes to mind.  If you were the one impaled, Vlad was a bast***.  If you were his people he was protecting, he was a darn good, ‘tough love’ ruler who was saving their backside from invading armies.

    This plays into the second major difference between the Jedi and the Sith.
    The Sith believe the Force is a tool to be used and that the power in and of itself is justification enough for their actions. In short, they believe they can do anything they want simply because they have the power to do so.  The Jedi also use the Force as a tool but also understand they are as much ‘lenses’ to help focus the flow of the Force and to interpret it’s ‘voice’ to work toward a more harmonious end result…. not necessarily one everyone will be totally happy with but, best as can fit the stituation.

    If one is to take the ‘history’ of the Jedi and the Sith… outside ‘joe schmoo’ might think they are both a pain in the backside since the major ‘wars’ everyone had gotten sucked into were due to the Jedi v Sith struggle for ‘who has bragging rights’ in the galaxy.  AND, the Sith tended to be folks who started out as part of the main Jedi Order and then ‘wandered off’ into darker corners.  So, Mister Schmoo might think Jedi are no different then Sith since they both tend to make more trouble for the non Force majority then anything else.  (based on the movies)

    #155674
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    I want to comment on this more than I can with a phone keyboard…but summary it’ll have to be: you can’t define a path like ours by two sentences otherwise its too vague or you loose the essence that defines our path.
    Also sith realists do not follow as closely to the expanded universe as one might think.  If anyone knows seti…or whatever username he has now, he’s a real sith realist….
    In the end its all perspective and because our society is so diverse its harder to have a uniform perspective…even in the fiction views differ, but what defines And unites us is our actions not our philosophical quarrels….even if I do enjoy a good debate…
    Phoenix

    #155676
    Setanaoko
    Participant

    As I’m getting on to Opie at FA on this one: Pheonix, a lot of people rather dislike having to sit through a long explanation of what someone’s path is.  Opie pointed out the Christian faith.

    “Christian: A believer and follower of Jesus Christ and his message.” -Opie Macleod

    Short, sweet and to the point.  If someone wants to further explore what makes someone Christian, than they can go pick up the Bible after this explanation.  Sure, it means that you end up asking questions, but this opens the door.  Opie’s stab at a definition was as follows:

    “a Jedi is an individual who follows the philosophical ideals and practices as prescribed in the Jedi Circle.” -Opie Macleod

    Now, I would probably go a bit further and add “by Opie Macleod” at the end of that sentence, so that when someone goes and looks it up they can find his work no problem.  But for him, that is the perfect answer.

    The idea is to open up a doorway.  If you give someone something tangible to look at with a quick shot, it shows that you not only have full confidence in your path but you aren’t stumbling over your words to try and describe what exactly you are when you tell someone you are a “Jedi”.

    You’ve got to remember, my goal for the community is many, but at the foremost it’s to raise awareness so that people stop feeling like they can’t tell people that they are Jedi-as well as cultivate real Jedi…rather than…well just look over at Wales…

    #155705
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    I see where your coming from with that Setanaoko, Opie has a one word definition according to his belief, his Jedi circle is not though.  I’ve studied it, and that is more of a lengthy definition than the one sentence you gave earlier.  Also if people dislike sitting through explanations of one’s path, what are they doing to study it in the first place?

    While simple is nice, it can be very vague (also people could follow the ideals of the Anderson Code, jedi Circle, etc..a definition needs to be more universal than one set of “guidelines” which in themselves is a definition of the Jedi path and far more than two sentences).  Also if its to simple, it might be too specific that its incriminating and cutting essential threads of the fabric of the Jedi path.

    If it was really as easy as one sentence, I have a feeling we would of come up with it already!

    Just an added thought, *bows*
    Phoenix 

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