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    There is no emotion, only peace.
    There is no ignorance, only knowledge.
    There is no passion, only serenity.
    There is no chaos, only harmony.
    There is no death, only the Force.

    Emotion, yet peace.
    Ignorance, yet knowledge.
    Passion, yet serenity.
    Chaos, yet harmony.
    Death, yet the Force.

    This debate is inspired from well…sort of two sources-a writing I recently did and then a discussion between myself and Opie. Opie made a few good points that I should probably take action if I really want to see our community evolve in a direction that takes us more away from the Star Wars mythos itself. I will be posting this in a couple of different forums and it may eventually make it to the rest of the community based on what comes from those discussions.

    Here’s the debate I would like to see. I’m proposing that we move beyond these two codes and use something else. Coelescere has Rivan’s version and I don’t see any reason we can’t use that. But in time, someone else may come up with one that is more pertinent to our path (it may even be just after this debate is finished)-we’ll see. For the moment I want all of you to step back from your training as Jedi and take a literal analysis of the two codes. Tell me what they LITERALLY say (as in, if you were someone who didn’t know a thing about being a Jedi, what would you assume these lines mean?).  And then after that, we can debate whether or not it really is relevant or if we need something entirely new.


    I never liked the “there is no” line because obviously there is.  I like to call that code the four (or 5) denials.  It always struck me as a fingers in ears denial common to large groups.  

    I prefer the second because it gives me the inferred “despite”.  “we have emotion,  yet we seek peace”  so on and so forth.  That may have not been what they wanted to go into it, but that are the words I insert to complete the blanks.  

    Brandel Valico

    With zero Jedi training or time spent contemplating it my initial response would probably be along the lines of asking what is meant by it all? No Emotion in what or whom? Peace for what end etc..etc…

    Simply cause I have always tried to avoid making assumptions.

    But let me point out that the act of taking the stanza’s literally defeats the purpose of them. They are similar to Zen Koans. If you take the most well known ones. “What is the sound of one hand clapping” and only seek to understand it in a literal sense and thats it. The reason for them is moot.

    The idea is not to seek a literal translation of them. But to require the student to spend the time mulling over them and seeking to understand the hidden meanings behind them. To seek what isn’t literal thus fostering them towards the correct mindset to hold and adapt within themselves.

    The more in depth concepts shared by Opie ( Perhaps his Jedi Circle concept?) and Rivan are from those who have all ready done this and reached their own deeper understandings of the simpler lines. The lines are simplified and as streamlined as can be to allow each student to reach the deeper understanding that those two have reached.  The issue with the shorter second version you have is that it doesn’t denote that you should seek not to have the first parts but strive to have the second ones. But gives the impression that while you may have the first you should seek the second. A subtle issue but one I feel is there.

    Still I wish you the best in this it will be interesting to see what arises from it.


    I dunno. I feel like if we are gonna get rid of the liturgy founding the order… then we should shed the name too. I think it is our JOB as self-proclaimed Jedi Realists to apply the fiction to the reality. If you create your own “Jedi Code” then it is not a “Jedi Code”… It would be Jaxs’s code, or MY code or somebody’s code. Now, if the Jedi as a community were to adopt it, it could be the community’s code as well. But, my point is… We got the idea of the Jedi from Lucas’s idea which sprung the Expanded Universe which is the doctrine of the Jedi Way. There is a code written that goes by what is in the first post… We all liked it. We applied it. That’s how Jedi Realism came about.

    I mean. Do people take away the Bible and still call themselves Christian? SURE, it’s possible. But, it is a main guiding principle of the definition of Jedi beliefs. NOW, if we wanted to come up with a supplement. Say… we wanted Jedi Precepts (Like Ashla Knights has), then that’s different.

    I guess I am just a purist. :) It’s our job to come up with our interpretation of it.

    There is no emotion, only peace.
    There is no ignorance, only knowledge.
    There is no passion, only serenity.
    There is no chaos, only harmony.
    There is no death, only the Force.

    Ew!  I don’t like that at all.  I usually go with the original, “There is no …, there is…,” version.

    Emotion, yet peace.
    Ignorance, yet knowledge.
    Passion, yet serenity.
    Chaos, yet harmony.
    Death, yet the Force.

    I’ve never liked this one either.  It seems to give too much power to emotion, ignorance, passion, chaos, and death.  If I were going to try to rewrite it, I might go with, “Though I know I will have some …, I will try to live a life of …”

    Opie made a few good points that I should probably take action if I really want to see our community evolve in a direction that takes us more away from the Star Wars mythos itself.

    I, respectfully, object to this premise and do not desire to move away from the Star Wars mythos.

    Coelescere has Rivan’s version and I don’t see any reason we can’t use that.

    I think all of the versions have merit for consideration.  I don’t think we should limit ourselves to considering just one code or one version of each code.  However, I like the full original 5-line for the koan like enigma that Brandel discussed.  I will continue to use it as my main code.

    For the moment I want all of you to step back from your training as Jedi and take a literal analysis of the two codes. Tell me what they LITERALLY say (as in, if you were someone who didn’t know a thing about being a Jedi, what would you assume these lines mean?).  And then after that, we can debate whether or not it really is relevant or if we need something entirely new.

    They were once new to me and they did not confuse me or scare me away.  I immediately realized that they couldn’t be taken literally and that they needed to be contemplated.  But I wonder how relevant the question is.  We are not asking the world to live by this code.  We are asking Jedi who are a part of the community to study and accept the code.  Thus the literal interpretation seems, to me, to be unimportant and just a distraction from trying to form a deeper understanding of how I can apply the code to my own life.


    Brandel Valico
    Just a small correction on a side note. The original ( as in first published version of the code) was only 4 lines. The “There is no Chaos ; There is Harmony” line was added in the KOTOR games.

    There is no Emotion ; There is Peace
    There is no Ignorance ; There is Knowledge
    There is no Passion ; There is Serenity
    There is no Death ; There is the Force

    Is the original incarnation of the code. Which is the one I still prefer. Since I view the code to be the path to Mastery of the Jedi ways. At first it teaches a student how to act. Then over time how to think , Then how to live. As for The Chaos / Harmony line  If speaking of internal chaos. This is resolved by the other three and I see no need for it to be there. Since living by this code would eventually give one harmony. Also if the Chaos / Harmony line is an outside influencer as chaos may not always be something we can control. Then it isn’t and shouldn’t be part of the code due to it not teachings us what to avoid and what to foster. While our Emotions ignorance and passions are. I’ll cover the death part later.  We as Jedi should actually seek outside chaos at times to foster harmony if we can not avoid it. Hence why I don’t use the extra added line myself.

    What this all means is this. If a student first stepping on the path begins to study the code. At first the almost always assume they can’t have emotions. Eventually they realize it means don’t act from an emotional state. They then slowly begin to accept the rest of the code teaches them how to act in a situation. To set aside their emotional reactions to the person or event. To gather all the information they can about the person or persons involved. Thus setting aside their ignorance. (Also important to try and do research before the issue is encountered if they can.) They then slowly learn to set aside their own passions. (Those things they care deeply about that may blind them to the events and emotions of others moving around) To not let their strong feelings about for example slavery to dictate how they act in a place where such a system is still allowed. But to instead stay serene and level headed. Eventually keeping these three concepts in how we act or react to something or someone will allow us to act as a Jedi should.

    Ahh you ask but what about Death? Many students argue that we can’t remain emotionless and serene and make judgments based on fair knowledge because we are human and prone to favoring one thing or another. That the only way we could ever do this is if we are dead. Or that if we are alive then we can’t to be more precise. That we would have to be soulless. That is why the 4th line teaches that this logic is not true. That if we keep the first three in mind then we see things as the Force sees them. Thus we need not be dead to act as we should.

    Now eventually a student will as noted before begin not just to act along these lines but to think along them as well. They won’t have to contemplate how one does these things. Instead their thoughts are all ready peaceful and serene and they have the knowledge they need at hand to make and or react to an action or decision. They are no longer just acting but actually being this way.

    Then they reach the point that they simply have to stop thinking about it at all. They just naturally do things this way.

    If you prefer the Jedi Mythos view which is very similar to my own

    Understanding the Jedi Code

    There is no emotion; there is peace.
    There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
    There is no passion; there is serenity.
    There is no death; there is the Force.

    Certainly a Jedi should know the code, by word and by heart. But seemingly every Jedi is in some fashion negligent, from the lowest beginner to the most knowledgeable among us. Consequently, were someone to demand, “What is the true meaning of the Jedi Code?” The Jedi who promptly answered would be rare indeed.


    At its most basic level, the Jedi Code is a set of guidelines explaining for a Padawan what virtues to prize, and what flaws to avoid. Instructors ask their students that if they remember nothing else, to always keep these words in mind. The reason is simple: in these four lines lie the instructions for how to become a Jedi Master.
    Consider the first rule: “There is no emotion; there is peace.” It is plainly a contrast, distinguishing the confusion of emotional considerations from the clear thinking of peaceful meditation— Obviously, a valuable quality.
    But if that peace is rooted in simply being unaware of some factor that would otherwise cause a Jedi to feel an emotional reaction, then it is not so much peace as ignorance. This is why the code contains the second rule: “There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.”
    This teaches Jedi to strive for understanding of all situations— particularly before acting — to better avoid errors in judgement. But, again, knowing a thing well can lead one to become engrossed in it. Engrossment leads to clouding of the mind. Thus, the third rule: “There is no passion; there is serenity.” Knowing a thing objectively is knowing it as the Force knows it.
    Still, students commonly argue that the only true objectivity is nonexistence — Death. For does one not affect a thing even by merely observing it? This is why there is the fourth rule: “There is no death: There is the Force.” The Force knows all things objectively, it is serene and it is not swayed by emotion.
    Thus the Jedi Code teaches that before undertaking any action, The Jedi should consider the will of the Force. “With these other considerations aside, all that remains is the Force” What is meant by this is that if a Jedi can act emotionlessly, knowledgeably, and serenely, then he is acting in accordance with the will of the Force.
    Therefore, if a Jedi acts in all things without emotion, ignorance, or passion, then that Jedi is truly a Master of the Force.

    At its heart, the Jedi Code provides simple instructions for living in touch with the Force. A Jedi never uses the Force to gain wealth or personal power. Instead, the Jedi uses the Force to find knowledge and enlightenment. Anger, fear, aggression, and other negative emotions lead to the dark side, so Jedi are taught to act only when they are at peace with the Force.


    While the Code is a Straightforward map to mastery of the Force, it can sometimes be frustrating to put into practice. The secret to the Code is considering it thoroughly before acting, however the world often does not afford a Jedi the time to do so, before forcing him/her to act.
    Still a Jedi can think through a great many things in advance, so as to better prepare for when the rest of the world is in a hurry. There are Nine Conclusions a Jedi can reach before the situations are thrust upon him/her. A Jedi who understands these Nine things will, when called upon to make a quick decision, already know the will of the Force. Presented below are these Nine Conclusions.
    Every Jedi should spend time meditating each day on the will of the Force. The reason is simple: If one unwittingly acted contrary to the will of the Force, recognizing the mistake soon after might still give one time to make amends. Also by regularly examining one’s own motivations, a Jedi could be certain that he/she was not allowing emotion, ignorance, or passion to intrude upon his/her clarity. A Jedi who has no time to meditate may more easily become lost. More to the point, a Jedi who refuses to meditate may already know that his/her motivations are not pure, and is thus lying to his/herself.
    A Jedi’s training in the Force never ends. A Wise Jedi should strive to remember that there is always something more to learn about the Force. The Force reveals itself to those who have the desire and knowledge to see it, and heeding only the Force’s will is much the same as looking at a glass of water and saying “Now I understand water” To continue to grow, a Jedi should train each day.
    Jedi can exist in this world because the Force exists. But a Jedi Order would need more. It would require loyalty. It goes without saying that Jedi should be loyal to one another and not squabble or fight. More importantly, though, each Jedi should be aware that he must act in accordance with the wishes of his Teacher, who in turn would have to act in accordance with the governing body of any such order. This is not a Question of seniority, but rather of understanding the will of the Force, and in this regard the members of the “Council” should be the recognized experts.
    A Jedi’s responsibility to the Force is to be honest with himself. This does not mean that he must be forthright with everyone else, however. There is a misperception that Jedi should be morally superior: “Many feel that a Jedi should be scrupulously honest, never taking advantage, and never withholding information. This is nonsense.” From a certain point of view, a Jedi is not being dishonest if he/she allows people to believe what they wish to believe. A Jedi can and should offer advice to those who need it, but it is not incumbent upon the Jedi to convince anyone to follow his advice. In service to the Force, a Jedi may employ deception, subterfuge, misdirection, and even fraud, if he does so with a righteous aim. Although most people have a distaste for such practices, the Force is without such emotions. Do not confuse this with ” Moral Flexibility” A Jedi does what needs to be done. But also remember that a Jedi is not above the Law.
    The most dangerous words ever uttered by a Jedi are ” A Jedi is not a creature of Morals.” These words have unfortunately been translated often by Jedi, to mean that Jedi can do no wrong. It actually means that Jedi are not enforcers of morality. While Jedi can bring or restore order and justice, they cannot themselves sit in judgement of others. There are two reasons for this: First, the world is a vast place, full of cultures that no one Jedi can completely understand. The second reason is that judgement leads to vengeance, and vengeance leads to the dark side. This is easy to understand, though not so easy to practice. Should a known murder be allowed to go free? Should a man intent on murder be killed? To answer either question, a Jedi must first know the will of the Force. Neither decision can be made hastily, except where lives are threatened by inaction.
    It is sometimes necessary for a Jedi to practice discretion: “The world will live in tranquility if certain matters are a bit overlooked or left unheard.” Some may see this as a sign of Jedi partisanship. Others, Particularly law enforcement agencies, may believe that Jedi ignore small crimes, in order to apprehend greater criminals. Obviously, neither of these is true. The truth is that Jedi Knights stand for order and justice, and these qualities do not begin with the misdeeds of the few. The goal of the Jedi should be to create and preserve an atmosphere in which justice can flourish, rather than try to create justice themselves.
    “To be brave in battle proves nothing. Bravery itself proves nothing. A Jedi should be prepared to put aside fear, regret, and uncertainty and either fight, run, surrender, or die” A common mistake among younger Jedi is that bravery is the opposite of fear, and since fear leads to the dark side, bravery is armor against the dark side. Not so, if a Jedi is mindful of the will of the Force, he will know whether it is best to stand his ground, or flee, or even to offer truce. Remember that bravery itself is an emotion, and a Jedi should be at peace — even in the midst of war.
    Sadly, we live in a world where conflict is a fact of life for far too many beings for us to remain apart from it. But we need not embrace conflict. “If a Jedi fights he must be ready to take a life. If he is not prepared, he must keep his weapon at his side” Or ” If you show a Weapon. ‘I am a warrior’ is what you are saying. This will cause other warriors to want to know who is better them or you” So to avoid unnecessary fighting, a Jedi should not advertise his/her skill. But when is it necessary to fight? The Force will show a Jedi when he/she has no other options, and a wise Jedi trusts the Force in this regard. When fighting, is it necessary to use a weapon? The answer is no. A Weapon is an intimidating thing — but it should not be used as a tool for intimidation. Do not use a weapon to create fear in an opponent use it to end the fight quickly and mercifully as possible. If this means destroying the opponent, so be it. But if a Jedi can end a fight without killing an opponent, so much the better. The best Jedi can avert injury altogether, with only a word. Some Jedi may take this to mean they should carry a less deadly weapon. There is no such thing. If a weapon cannot kill, it is not truly a weapon.
    Do not come to rely on the Force to the detriment of your other senses and abilities. Jedi students should develop their other talents and abilities, and not rely solely on the Force. To use the Force to accomplish every mundane task is to trivialize it. Using the Force isn’t the only solution to every problem; sometimes, it isn’t even the best solution. That’s where a Jedi’s other skills and talents come in. Jedi training should consist of many exercises; mastering the Force is only a part of that training. The student should also learn to run, jump, climb, fight, swim, and think. These exercises could be made easier by using the Force, but this would be to the detriment of the Jedi’s overall experience. A Jedi needs to learn his capabilities without the Force so that he can truly know himself and also understand what those without the Force are capable of accomplishing.
    Using the Force because it’s convenient, even when other methods might be more sensible, falls dangerously close to the dark side. It’s only one step removed from using the Force to achieve personal wealth and power, and that’s definitely a corruption of the Force.

    Thats the info fairly much word for word. adapted slightly to a more realistic concept.

    In this we also see the concept that it is in the taking of the time to mull over and contemplate the stanzas and the code and how they all work together to show a path to becoming a Jedi that one finds the true value of the code itself.

    Also it is important to remember to take all the lines together and view them as a whole. Not as 4 individual lines. Doing so is like reading only one book out of a 4 part series. Useful but you don’t understand the entire story.

    As for doing away with it and writing a new one. I also would and will decline to do so. It’s served me well over the last 24 years or so since I first encountered it.

    I also feel a Jedi should be seeking to adapt the Jedi Mythos as closely as they can to reality and seeking to follow that. Instead of seeking to alter the path so that it’s not even still the same path.


    To clarify let me say I am no jedi realist, since this term seems to be taken up by people who want to emulate fiction in real life or to follow the Star Wars mythos. Thus the need for “realist” to make difference from roleplayer and real jedi by mere superficial impression. I use a term which dates back to 2002, jediism. That’s 3 years earlier than jedi realist stance and purpose of following Star Wars mythos came to be. I prefer though simply jedi, jedi way. Which for me is about devoting myself to jedi ideals and finding any means I can to help me fulfill those ideals. In the end it’ just a one name of the same rose.

    That means we already have different ways to apply the path. Notice that difference is with application. If you’d say I am no jedi just because I prefer to use no Star Wars lingo then the same applies to fictional jedi and jedi realists  ;D

    In past all such debates have become mired in webs of miscommunication and misunderstandings. Let us look beyond the superficial and we may succeed this time. A jediist, jedi realist or simply jedi our core ideals and inspiration is the same.

    But if we see that our methods of applying the path are too different to fit together then it is in our best interest if we each go on our own way. For jedi way deserves to live on. Consider not only your jedi views, but see what this path could bring to this world. So don’t try to dishearten or stop your fellow jedi from either joining you or going on their own way. Doing so would be undoing of all we try to be and stand for.

    I see my path as taking the jedi ideals which are very well combined in 2 jedi codes. They both can be confusing and mean little at first and start making more sense as you progress on your path. I too consider the 4 line code as a Zen koan rather than anything else.

    What I do think is necessary but to make jedi way strong and capable of spreading out to this world is the disconnection from Star Wars. Take the jedi ideals from fiction and write it down as well as you understand. Then start looking how to improve yourself on jedi path. As you grow, so does your understanding and definition of jedi way.

    This would make the path accessible for many others around the world who have somehow and other found the real Force and are looking to use their knowledge and skill for the greater good of all. This would make the path accessible for those who simply turn away because of first impression. Do you really think that all those who notice jedi code and quotes from fictions are shallow people? What if they have high standards instead and see us unable to grow out of supportive fiction. What if they see us unable to make the jedi path a living path? Aren’t there really any justifiable concerns about using fictional cornerstones for real world thing?

    Consider that a live philosophy is the one that evolves. It changes. Only if you take jedi codes as zen koans can jedi code be considered a part of a living philosophy. Make it static and you end up with a dead path.

    About fiction purists. We are not living in fiction. While it can be more elevating than any real life source, it definitely is. It has been but a fuel for 11 years of misunderstandings and conflict that is still seething. It is us who have to be more versatile in fact, not the code. The code is fine as it is. It is about how, why and if at all we use it.

    It does not suit for explaining the path to everyone. Beginners definitely need explanation of the 4 lines. That defeats it’s role as the flagship for jedi way. Let the code be where it deserves to be. A source of wisdom, guidance and inspiration. A koan.

    Those who wish to expand and form unity in jedi ranks must put forth a simple explanation what this path is.
    If you’re jedi realist then I suppose using quotes from fiction is fine. If you see it more practical to explain jedi way in real life wording then go for it. I personally explain the path as:

    We strive to ever improve ourselves in all things.
    We seek the mysteries of the universe.
    We dedicate ourselves for the service of greater good.
    We are guardians of peace.

    This states the purpose. A 4 liner code is in my opinion more about how to apply that purpose. Peacefully, serenely and consciously. Instead of first and most primitive urges, emotions, feelings of untrained, unbalanced person. We don’t react, we act.

    There is no emotion, only peace.
    There is no ignorance, only knowledge.
    There is no passion, only serenity.
    There is no death, only the Force.

    It can be seen more than as a guideline, and rather as a statement of spiritual approach.

    Even then it is only a format, a style of writing down those ideals. Don’t make a dogma out of form and style.

    If you want to use it as de facto official format then by all means, do so. At least recognize that other jedi have as good reasons for their own ways of describing the practical application of jedi way.

    If we can unite those different applications of the way under one banner then awesome. If that for us, as individuals seems but a relationship we’d best quit. Then by all means do go on your own way. We must not tear ourselves and our philosophy apart. Let us support each other, isn’t that what our path is about anyway?


    Simply because Opie’s not in here to post this himself, I’ll go ahead and post what he did in the other two forums I put this up in:

    Opie Macleod wrote:
    1.) I am all for moving past these out-dated modes of Jedi Philosophy. It makes me sad to think we have not developed beyond fictional role-playing guide writings in the 13 plus years we have sought to live as Jedi. Do we truly not have something more real then the Code?

    2.) Alethea I brought up in your post because it seemed to try to serve as a Definition for the Jedi. Is the Jedi Path defined by the Jedi Code? I do not believe so. It leaves out so much. And leaves so much to personal interpretation. Yet the Jedi are better defined then by the Jedi Code. Our Path is better defined then just the Jedi Code. I feel the Jedi Code is not the best introduction piece we could offer new/interested people.

    3.) There is a reason the fiction writers went to the second version listed here. And sort to offer a different view. Also why long before that fiction writers had Luke create a new Jedi Code (often called the Jedi Creed) as well. If even they saw it was flawed, why haven’t we?

    4.) The Jedi Code has been our basis since the Jedi Community started. And that does not inspire me. I have seen the backwards results of using the Jedi Code as the foundation. It is building a castle on sand. Our community is not what is should be, anyone can see that. And we were built from the Code, thus we must look at that and question it.

    5.) The Jedi Code provides something short, mantra. I feel it can be taught within an Academy environment or for historical sake. But it should not be used as our foundation, it should not be our definition, and it should not be the first piece of material a new person is exposed too.

    How much better is it to have actual written material from real Jedi for real Jedi instead of a 24 year old fictional piece of writing made for a role-playing guide? By a company that eventually lost the privilege to do so.

    I just think we, as Jedi, who have been living the Jedi Path day in, day out, for years upon years, can come up with something better then the Jedi Code for introduction material.

    My response to Brandel:

    You said that you feel moving away from the mythos would take away from the path entirely.  I don’t see how that would be the case, as WE are the community.  The same principles from the movies can be applied using other resources.  One of Ashla Knight’s tactics (and this comes from conversations with Master Thompson on the matter) is to pull the original teachings used to create the Jedi in the Star Wars Mythos and use them in their philosophy.  The only reason that Ashla Knights had to step away from the term “Jedi” was because of legal issues they were running into with George Lucas.  Other than the name, they are just as much Jedi as we are.  They have just moved in a direction that I honestly feel the rest of the community needs to move towards.

    The major issue we face, as a community, is that we haven’t really made “Jedi” our own.  It is far too close to that of the movies/books and this is the major reason that we are finding ourselves lumped in with Scientology (in that we base our philosophy/beliefs/way of life off of a fictional universe.

    It is also something to note, that Christianity has evolved over the years, we may still use the Bible to teach, but we incorporate stories that are relevant to this day and age to help the masses understand old stories.  The Bible, at this point, is used for two purposes: to perserve Christian History, to validate and explain Holidays and to provide us with hope that in the future Christ will return.  IF it were not for the historical value, we could actually do away with a good chunk of the Bible and substitute educational points to explain why God has decided certain things should be the way they are (i.e. why the commandments are so important rather than just presenting them as commandments.  For example, you could explain why adultery is bad from a social and mental health point of view, etc) because our understanding of such things has evolved beyond the metaphors and very limited verbiage of the Bible.

    And I am not saying at all that we need to completely get rid of the code, I believe (as Opie has pointed out) that we can still keep it as part of our historical reference to teach to students-though perhaps later on when they fully comprehend the path.

    Onto the Code:

    I posed the question of what these different codes mean to a variety of people in my unit and some friends I have across Torii, just to see what they said.  All of them seemed to be of the belief that the “there is no, there is/only” presented an absolute.  The “yet” code presented the potential for both to coexist.  Now, at first, I wrote the first line of each code one under the other.  With the exception of two people who have undergone the discussion of what the code is suppose to mean, everyone believed that the codes were of the same literary piece-that each statement was not complete without the other.

    From a code/creed we can determine exactly what it is a group is suppose to uphold.  Take for example the NCO Creed of the US Army:

    No one is more professional than I. I am a Noncommissioned Officer, a leader of soldiers. As a Noncommissioned Officer, I realize that I am a member of a time honored corps, which is known as “The Backbone of the Army”. I am proud of the Corps of Noncommissioned Officers and will at all times conduct myself so as to bring credit upon the Corps, the Military Service and my country regardless of the situation in which I find myself. I will not use my grade or position to attain pleasure, profit, or personal safety.

    Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in my mind — accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my soldiers. I will strive to remain technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a Noncommissioned Officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

    Officers of my unit will have maximum time to accomplish their duties; they will not have to accomplish mine. I will earn their respect and confidence as well as that of my soldiers. I will be loyal to those with whom I serve; seniors, peers, and subordinates alike. I will exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders. I will not compromise my integrity, nor my moral courage. I will not forget, nor will I allow my comrades to forget that we are professionals, Noncommissioned Officers, leaders!

    This is a creed everyone aspiring to become an NCO is suppose to learn.  You actually have to say it at the induction ceremony.  Few people, however, ever really contemplate what it is suppose to mean-and even less live up to the standards set forth in the creed.  None-the-less this tells you everything you need to know about what it means to be an NCO-without ever once needing to use mysterious terminology to get NCOs to think about what it is they need to do in order to be a good NCO.

    How does this relate?  It’s a modern interpretation for a modern audience.  The Army evolved to a point where it needed to define what an NCO is because no one was quite getting it (it probably also has something to do with the fact that they got rid of the SPEC ranks).  You couldn’t just imply the task by saying “An NCO is a Leader”.  The term “leader” had to be explained.  They tried with an entire book about leadership.  In fact, the Army has the most comprehensive study on the subject of the five branches.  It wasn’t enough.  They then condensed it into what you see above.  As we move into a new age, so should our ability to inspire the future of our ranks  through something that is more easily understood by them.

    Consider that a live philosophy is the one that evolves. It changes. Only if you take jedi codes as zen koans can jedi code be considered a part of a living philosophy. Make it static and you end up with a dead path.

    About fiction purists. We are not living in fiction. While it can be more elevating than any real life source, it definitely is. It has been but a fuel for 11 years of misunderstandings and conflict that is still seething. It is us who have to be more versatile in fact, not the code. The code is fine as it is. It is about how, why and if at all we use it.

    It does not suit for explaining the path to everyone. Beginners definitely need explanation of the 4 lines. That defeats it’s role as the flagship for jedi way. Let the code be where it deserves to be. A source of wisdom, guidance and inspiration. A koan.

    I think Neo actually said this better than I did, so I’m highlighting this as what I’m trying to say.  Thank you Neo. :)


    There seems to be a positive flow of Force… I just ran here to comment on your response to Brandel. I think you are on a right path.

    I myself am thinking that it is a time to do something about it. I was already looking to form a highly experienced jedi group for certain purposes. I came to see that before this the community needs a new fresh start.

    If I can be of any help to you, then I will do what I can. The past tension between us is worthless unless seen as a lesson. Funny I thought all of it proved that I should keep away from you.  ;D

    *cutting and editing sentences had few oddities left in, fixed that*

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