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  • #139473
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I’ve been thinking a bit lately about this idea of locations being strong in dark side energy.  It’s a concept from the fiction, but one I think many people subscribe to this idea to some extent.  This is my new understanding of it.

    To me there are two main explanations for a location (not a being) that feels dark.  The first is that a dark, non-corporeal (non-physical) entity could simply be hanging out in that spot.  Just as there are earth spirits, water spirits, all variety of guardian beings that live on our earth and act as stewards, there are those that are not interested in being a steward.  Or they are earth bound following their death and can’t move on from that location on their own.  But, those sufficiently sensitive would pick up on that energy without realizing where it came from and could mistakenly label the location as a source of this energy when it is actually an entity.  Either way it isn’t a pleasant place to be.

    But what if there are no entities at the location?  Energy itself is not light or dark.  Energy just is, vibrating at a frequency that may be constant or changing over time.  There is nothing inherently good or bad about any frequency, that definition comes from within us.  I believe that locations that are said to have a lot of dark energy are simply vibrating at a frequency that matches a dark frequency in the person that is calling it dark.  For instance, anger could be a problem for someone, which vibrates at a frequency that can be associated with the color red.  If this location has a natural frequency near this, it will amplify the angry red energy in the person, and they’ll feel angry.  But that anger exists in the person, not the location.  Emotions belong to conscious beings, an interaction between the brain, body, mind, and spirit.  Energy is simply a vibration and has no emotions.  Therefore, this idea that a location has dark energy is a function of the observer.

    This is the same with places that are said to be high energy locations. There are some people who will visit a highly vibrating place and it uplifts them, while others will feel angry.  Again, the energy isn’t the issue, it’s how that energy interacts with the person.

    I think it often happens that people go somewhere with an expectation, and that expectation creates their experience of a location.  The label then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy so to speak.  In particular, we can then visit a ‘dark’ location with fear in our hearts, amplifying a lower vibration within us, and increasing the amount of dark side energy we experience.  Yet if we went to the same location without that fear, and instead with an objective focus and calm the experience would be completely different.  Perhaps if Luke had done that he would have met his mother instead of his father on Dagobah.  After all, the only thing in that cave was what he brought with him.  :yoda

    This is an idea that I’m still working on, so if it isn’t clear, definitely let me know.  :-)

    #151676
    inari
    Participant
    Quote:
    This is the same with places that are said to be high energy locations. There are some people who will visit a highly vibrating place and it uplifts them, while others will feel angry.  Again, the energy isn’t the issue, it’s how that energy interacts with the person.

    This goes for entities too. Some people may feel like this around certain spirits as well, though the spirit themselves are not evil. Just think of how you get the heebeejeebees when going into a basement, or  under the house, or certain cupboards. According to some of my readings, there is a certain type of Otherworld spirit that likes such places and is actually positive in outlook, but has such a high energy that it is disturbing to many people.

    #151677
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Very true.  Thanks for adding that!

    #151680
    Magdelene Nashira
    Participant

    This is an interesting thing to ponder and I don’t know that I have all the answers.  In fact I think the Force is just recently leading me into teaching me more about this.

    I’ve heard Jax’s first idea before.  And have heard it from several sources, so I think that can happen.  I also do think evil spirits do exist just as any other spirit exists and if an evil spirit inhabits an area it can give us that danger sense in the Force that alerts us to the prescense of the evil spirit.  I have encountered evil spirits and I have encountered other spirits and am gifted in being able to sense spirits.  There is no mistaking an evil spirit.  The level of fear is just through the roof.  There’s no doubt about it. 

    As far as energy just being dark in a certain area, I’m not sure what to think about that.  The one thing that is on my mind as I think of it now is that energy is constantly moving.  So I don’t know how it would stay in one place unless it were somehow harnessed or contained.  Does the energy in our body stay in our body? (for example)  Thus I’m not sure how the concept of moving energy relates to place or whether any type of energy would stay in one place. 

    #151681
    Aslyn
    Participant

    As a general rule, I’m a little more sceptical when it comes to subscribing to the idea that an energy is light or dark in a fundamental way – as we know, energy has a natural tendency to be converted, altered or transformed as part of processes inherent both to matter and energy on a non-material plane: moving from solid to liquid to gas, generating heat, light, electrical energy, and so on. The notion of energetic impressions is a complicated one, simply because it’s suggestive of non-matter-based energy being fixed in the same sense that the material energy stored within, say, a rock, is fixed. And moreso in that it takes on a permanence in a manner that relates to it’s environment and the stimuli contained within.

    As Jackie noted, energy generally tends to resonate or vibrate at various different frequencies – and it wouldn’t surprise me at all to discover that, as you say, these possess a perceptual relation to Human senses: the vibration or frequency of a particular energy being subconsciously (or maybe even unconsciously associated with an emotional feeling). That observed, I do sometimes think of the energy of the Force (or whatever you choose to call it) as being tainted or perhaps impressed upon by those things contained within it – and by this, I do refer to life in the primary sense.

    Walk into a room where an argument has been held and you can sense the tension that does or has existed in the air. Energetic senses are more sensitive to such things, and people as a general rule tend to pick up such signals often without realising it – our moods are very easily affected by the ‘feel’ of the energy within a particular spot, if we’re receptive to the sensation. That is speculation on my part (since I am NOT fond of discussing absolutes when it comes to something beyond our true comprehension), but as with many things, you learn about it due to observing the consequences of it’s presence. This, I think, bodes true for energetic impressions as well.

    So, what therefore constitutes a ‘Dark Side location’? As far as I’m concerned, this and only this: a faint impression of emotions, thoughts and actions that have occured within that place, imprinted upon the energy that remains there. However, let us not make the mistake of assuming that energy is static – a place that is imprinted with a sensation of violence or of death will not always remain so. Energy is converted, exchanged and naturally flows from one place to another, so naturally the feeling of a place will change over time – both as that remnant moves in a natural way, and as further impressions are made upon that energy from the presence of other living things.

    But being of a fairly sceptical nature when it comes to spirits and the like (I’ll admit, for all my faith in ghosts and the like, I’m still more of an Empiricist than not), let us observe another potential factor: the flawed nature of Human perceptions. We’re easily influenced, far more gullible than most people like to admit, and easily spooked. And, in truth, rarely objective in the truest sense: even when our minds are at their clearest and most receptive, our own thoughts and feelings remain, offering context, question or judgement about everything we encounter. I don’t want to be a naysayer and mock your beliefs, but I would recommend that you give some consideration to whether what you feel is truly there, or merely a perceptual projection placed there as a consequence of your own inclinations. As you said – the sensations you derive from an area are indeed the function of an observer. So your own impressions of an area may well be entirely flawed, but not noticed purely as a consequence of a subjective state of mind.

    In that sense, I think we agree: expectation is especially potent when it comes to perception. I’m always amused when someone walks into a house they’ve been told that is haunted, only to report that they felt a shiver run up their back and an inexplicable sense of horror. Not so inexplicable considering that they went in there to feel just that. If you look for ghosts, you always find them. The same is true of energetic impressions, whether real or perceptually imagined.

    Anyway, that’s the sceptical half of my discourse over and done with ;)

    Now I’m going to talk purely for a perceptual area of my brain: the part that believes this to be true on a semi-subconscious level (in the way that people believe God exists because their academic faith is supplemented by a sense of existential spirituality). Most of the things I ‘believe’ in the sense of faith tend to be shaped by reason, to an extent – I prefer what I believe to be supplemented by some level of rational discourse to back it up. I don’t require evidence of what I believe, but I do need it to make ‘sense’. And, I admit, I’ve always been a little uncomfortable at how readily people accept the supernatural or the existential without having any idea how, why or upon what grounds such things are possible. Open-mindedness is all very well and good, but let’s think about this ;)

    To start with, we look at the Force – the vast majority of Jedi Realists I’ve encountered (and definitely observing the distinction between Jedi Realists and Jediists here) tend to think of the Force as a fully-pervasive energy. In essence, it’s very much the same way people look at God: not a separate entity, but everything. The Force is totality, since it is energy, and all energy is essentially interconnected in the long view. That said, when most of us talk about ‘the Force’ we’re being a little more specific as to the type of energy in question: that of life. Both that which exists in life at any given time (very literally the Living Force) and that which connects it to everything else – the impressions we leave upon our energy, the way we shape it, move it, channel it and leave, if you will, a sense of our essence upon it. That observed, I don’t buy into Light/Dark Dualism – splitting the Force into two halves is essentially a naive Human desire to see the ethical at a cosmic level, which I think is more than a little arrogant.

    Given that, from where comes the idea of Light or Dark impressions upon our world? I’m not fond of using Star Wars references when I talk, but sometimes they say it as well as I could, and better capture the imagination. I the book Traitor, Vergere and Jacen Solo have gone to the sight of the Old Republic Jedi Temple on Coruscant, which Jacen Solo realises was built on a ‘Dark Side’ Nexus – a massive concentration of Force energy with the ‘taint’ of the Dark Side. Vergere poses a rhetorical question: why would the Jedi build their Temple on such a nexus? The answer: they wouldn’t. The nexus was a gathering of Force energy, natural and neutral – the common differentiation into Light and Dark was a perceptual error, a mistake – a lie. With this, I am inclined to agree. What Vergere noted was called the Dark Side is what you would well consider to be natural energy, untainted by the presence of sentient minds. What do we infer from this? A couple of things:

    1) The energy that interacts with the sentient mind is influenced by it as a matter of energetic diffusion (if you will) – drop salt into water and the two are no longer entirely distinct, but merge. Each can be detected individually, but you cannot drink the water without tasting the salt, and vice versa. When coming into contact with energy, you can sense the presence of a sentient mind’s impressions upon it, but you cannot separate the two in a perceptual context.

    2) When using our perceptions of energy, the Observer Effect applies: you cannot observe a thing without having an effect on it. So, in essence, we come back to what Jackie observed about expectations – if you expect to find a ‘Dark Side’ impression on the energy around you, your mind is more predisposed to finding one, whether it’s really there or not. As such, you’re not perceiving the energy objectively. Which leads us to inference number three…

    3) Force energy untainted by a sentient mind cannot be perceived by one. Ergo, all observed/perceived energy possesses an impression from a sentient mind.

    Maybe that’s overcomplicating matters, but you have to ask yourself: when looking into a mirror, is what you see really there, or is it merely reflecting what you see? The information contained in the reflection is limited to your human senses – most particularly, to your sense of sight. You see particular colours, patterns, shapes, wavelengths of light, all because that is what your body is naturally predisposed to observe. But you don’t observe things that your senses are not calibrated for: ultraviolet, infrared, and so on. Perception is therefore a limited state based within a subjective context – what you sense is determined by your physical limitations and your psychological predisposition towards that experience. In essence, you perceive what you’re receptive to in the context of your limitations.

    So when you come across an impression within the Force, an area that you perceive to have a particular ‘aura’ or perceptual sense about it, think about that. And, not to be too cliche, but let us remember the old expression: the Force reflects what it finds in you. If you’re sensing something ‘dark’, look inward before you go seeking external or supernatural explanations.

    [size=8pt]p.s. I’m back. I’ve been hovering, but a post of that size pretty much announces that I’m here and paying attention once again :p[/size]

    #151682
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    welcome back Hovering Aslyn  ;D  

    For some instances, Aslyn’s conjecture would hold.   Perhaps the place was just neutral energy until it was altered by strong emotions,  thereby being imprinted by those self same vibrations of hate, fear, loathing, anger, etc.  It would be very easy for someone to radiate ‘into’ an area and thereby making it ‘feel bad’ to any who came after.

    Not certain if there is an intrinsic ‘cosmic rule’ that says there are places that ‘just are bad’… without having some type of exposure to negative emotional energies… from humans, entities, or …. ????   Although, I suppose if you really took the yin-yang dualistic view of everything, then there must be both to ‘balance’ the whole game.

    #151683
    Aslyn
    Participant

    Well, notice that only in Human society is death or pain seen as something intrinsically ‘bad’, in the sense that it is ‘unnatural’ or ‘avoidable’ – you often hear reports of people going to battlefields or graveyards and sensing a strong negative energy because of the deaths that have occured there. However, you would immediately have to consider the same being true for a hospital, or really any place in which a living creature has suffered or died – and yet this is not the case.

    So, really, you have to wonder: are impressions upon energy in the positive/negative regard merely the product of strong emotional circumstances, or are they purely perceptual? Or is it that it becomes a matter of perspective in terms of how we approach emotions and events of life and death? Within the animal world, you can observe hostility in defense, sorrow in submissiveness, joy in the play of the young, and weary resignation of the old – all emotional states, I’m sure you’d agree. Does it really come down to our somewhat arrogant notion of sentience being the key factor? Or is it our emphasis on emotion and, of course, death that makes it more evident?

    It does lead me to wonder – are impressions on energy conscious, subconscious or entirely unconscious? Or merely a product of our overactive imaginations?

    #151686
    inari
    Participant
    Quote:
    notice that only in Human society is death or pain seen as something intrinsically ‘bad’,
    Quote:
    However, you would immediately have to consider the same being true for a hospital, or really any place in which a living creature has suffered or died – and yet this is not the case.

    Perhaps it is not the case in your experience, though I acknowledge that if you are still working on your nursing degree you’ve probably spent plenty of time in hospitals thus far. Neither would I say that picking up ‘bad vibes’ or whatever one would like to describe them as is only for humans. I did some volunteer work at the RSPCA in Adelaide once upon a time, and there was one particular room where the animals who could not be homed were destroyed. I didn’t know this the first time I was in that room, it looked like the other vet rooms but I did feel a bit creeped out in that room. Not a lot, just a bit. The animals often, not all the time but often seemed to have some inkling that something was up when they were taken in there. Granted again they could have picked something up from the humans. It seems to me that there was something about that room that could be interpreted as ‘bad’ energy, even to non-humans, which suggests that since animals don’t really have imaginations the energy impressions of that room were not, at least, due to that.

    Then, too, when it comes to animals and people in my experience if animals REALLY don’t like a certain person (and I mean several different animals and with consistency) there is generally a good reason why. For example one girl I went to school with was disliked by every animal I ever saw her with with the exception of her own dog, who for the record had had his head run over by motorbikes several times and was a bit dim. Later on my mum was working at their farm so I spent quite a bit of time with this girl and found her to be a very unpleasant personality. Not all the animals I saw her with and that didn’t like her would have been on the receiving end of her cruelty. So this may be an example of a non-human sensing the ‘energy’ of a person. 

    I think that energy impressions are largely subconscious, and it takes effort and training on the part of the conscious to interpret then correctly. Probably in much the same way that it takes effort to decipher dreams, the feelings have a similar basis. But now I’m probably heading off topic, as I seem to be thinking of intuition more than ‘Dark’ and ‘Light’ side.

    For the record, I do not personally believe that a place is and of itself intrinsically evil.

    #151726
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    I suppose it is not different then the fellow on one board who ‘felt evil approach’ every time he heard the snippet of Tubular Bells used in the movie, The Exorcist.  He experienced it internally as ‘connected with evil’ and ever after, associated ‘evil’ with the music.  

    I had a reverse ‘exposure’.  My college buddy got the album first — it was THE first release for the just starting company, Virgin Records.  I liked both sides of the vinyl and THEN went to see the movie because I had heard they used part of the music in their soundtrack.   :P

    Still came out of the movie a bit skittish.. especially since it got out at one in the morning AND I had to stand on a street corner lit by one lonely lamp waiting for the last bus of the night.. while the fog from the nearby Seattle waters came to cloak the area.  LOL.. again, more mind making it’s own ‘atmosphere’ then any real danger in place.

    #151728
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I’ve been busy and unable to get back to this.  I was speaking about very specific situations.  A fictional example is the cave on dagobah, but we have our own places that people have avoided for centuries due to a concentration of negative energy.  On the flip side we have places that are concentrations of positive energy.  My explanation was meant to simply paint these areas in a new light – they aren’t intrinsically good or evil, but they resonate with related feelings within us.  That is when we characterize them as such. 

    And I certainly don’t claim humans to be the only sources of consciousness in our world.  Animals are far more aware and conscious than the vast majority of people realize.  I’ve learned this over the past year or so with our cats as my wife developed the ability to hear them.  They understand, learn, can reason, and dream.  They enjoy stories and do know the difference between real and imaginary.  They know the difference between telling the truth and telling lies, and they know when she’s going to have a seizure because of the energy changes she has.  Different animals, even within the same species, have different levels of consciousness.  Their experiences with the energy of a place would be different based on their own experiences.  However, it seems like most animals have similar reactions to energy as we do, perhaps because of our common evolutionary points.  I don’t really know. 

    I don’t know if my theory is right either, I just know it made sense when I thought about it.

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