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  • #139367
    Jax
    Keymaster

    We’ve been discussing the use of a document called the Core Values, which can be used as a guide to help others understand what a Jedi is, and what it means to live as a Jedi.  It does not seek to explain every aspect of being a Jedi, nor is the use of this document required to study here. 

    Just for reference, a Jedi is defined separately as such:

    Jedi Realist is a term meant to distinguish the Jedi of the
    real world from the Jedi of fiction, often shortened to
    Jedi, leaving the term Realist implied.

    Jedi are people who seek to emulate the Jedi Knights as
    presented in the fictional Star Wars universe by embracing
    the Jedi’s virtues and strengths and expressing them in the
    real world.  Jedi are called by the Force to direct their
    actions and passions in a direction that serves humanity,
    seeking to embody the principles outlined in the Core
    Values, and constantly pursuing self-development and
    training in all areas of mastery, including mental,
    physical, spiritual and psychic.

    Then, the Core Values are presented.  You are voting on which presentation of the Core Values you prefer.

    Option A

    A Jedi:
    1. Has faith and confidence in the Force and the inner strength and guidance it provides,
    2. Disciplines and trains the mind to gain knowledge, a strong will and serenity,
    3. Disciplines and trains the body to develop and maintain health and wellness,
    4. Disciplines and trains the spirit through a conscious connection to the Force, gaining discretion and wisdom,
    5. Acknowledges emotions without allowing them to alter their actions or vision,
    6. Strives to achieve balance in all areas of life,
    7. Humbly undertakes service for the betterment of all,
    8. Fosters an environment where peace and justice can thrive,
    9. Respects and defends life in all its forms,
    10. Practices compassion and patience toward others as well as the self,
    11. Approaches life with courage and honesty,
    12. Views the world critically and objectively, with a willingness to challenge conventional thinking.
    13. Accepts the responsibility to pass on their knowledge to willing students of the Force.

    Option B
    A Jedi:
    1. Has faith and confidence in the Force and the inner strength and guidance it provides,
    2. Disciplines and trains the mind to gain knowledge, a strong will and serenity,
    3. Disciplines and trains the body to develop and maintain health and wellness,
    4. Disciplines and trains the spirit through a conscious connection to the Force, gaining discretion and wisdom,
    5. Acknowledges emotions without allowing them to alter their actions or vision,
    6. Strives to achieve balance in all areas of life,
    7. Approaches life with courage and honesty,
    8. Views the world critically and objectively, with a willingness to challenge conventional thinking.
    9. Humbly undertakes service for the betterment of all,
    10. Fosters an environment where peace and justice can thrive,
    11. Respects and defends life in all its forms,
    12. Practices compassion and patience toward others as well as the self,
    13. Accepts the responsibility to pass on their knowledge to willing students of the Force.

    Option C
    A Jedi
    1. Has faith and confidence in the Force and the inner strength and guidance it provides,
    2. Disciplines and trains the mind to gain knowledge, a strong will and serenity,
    3. Disciplines and trains the body to develop and maintain health and wellness in support of the Jedi’s work,
    4. Disciplines and trains the spirit through a conscious connection to the Force, gaining focus and discretion,
    5. Acknowledges emotions without allowing them to alter their actions or vision.
    6. Strives to achieve balance in all areas of life.
    7. Respects and defends life in all its forms.
    8. Is a guardian of peace and justice.
    9. Approaches life with courage and honesty to gain wisdom.
    10. Humbly undertakes service for the betterment of all.
    11. Practices compassion and patience toward others as well as the self.
    12. Views the world critically and objectively, with a willingness to challenge conventional thinking.
    13. Accepts the responsibility to pass on their knowledge to willing students of the Force.

    In the final document, there would be a follow on explanation to go into more detail regarding each of these points to clear up misconceptions. 

    #150688
    Streen
    Participant

    I voted for the revision.  No offense, I just think Jedi shouldn’t be labeled and packaged to be this or that.  You’re treading close to turning Jedi Realism into a religion, in my eyes.

    Can I ask, why do you want to define Jedi in such a particular way?  The Jedi community has been around a long time, and only until recently did this desire to define everything come up, and we’ve operated fine with it.  Why can’t we just sit back and learn from eachother, have discussions, and live our lives? 

    The wisest Jedi I’ve ever known (Mitth, Relan, Kiae, Demetrius, etc.) left the Jedi to go live their lives, to get away from all the analysis and defining going on.  I nearly left, myself, for good.  But I can’t walk away, because being a Jedi is the most liberating and enlightening experience I have ever had. 

    So why take away that freedom, that enlightenment?  We are all students here, as we will be forever.

    #150692
    Jax
    Keymaster

    First, this isn’t a restrictive definition.  There is far more flexibility than in the Jedi Code unless you start interpreting (which automatically brings division).  These aren’t rules, and thus don’t create rigidity.  They aren’t dogma.  They are simply guidelines that help other people understand the Jedi path as we see it (and others of course).  It helps people explain in more detail to non-Jedi what our path means as well.  Yes, you can answer simply, with a sentence or two, but once more questions come, this is a more thorough way to explain it. 

    Yes, the Jedi path has existed for a ‘while’, though in the scheme of things, it is rather young still.  People have always looked to define the path simply yet with some breadth as well.  This document seeks to do this.  Also, the lack of definition is why so many people flounder.  Lacking direction, lacking basic guiding boundaries means you have people claiming to be Jedi without ever getting up off their computer and chair.  We don’t seek to judge these people, but state they are not fully following the Jedi path as we define it.  That doesn’t mean they can’t train here, as I’ve stated in the other thread, we welcome all who put the effort in, no matter how far they plan to train. 

    It also helps people understand what we expect out of students as they progress.  We’re still working on easily understood standards for Knighthood and other paths here, though we have working documents.  This document helps define what we will look for in Knights as well.  Plus, it is a unifying document as there are other groups that are or will be using it. 

    We’re not saying you need to use it Streen, but it does have value, educationally and as a guide for people as they train with or without us here.  I’m really curious how you see this and say it takes away freedom within a path.  There are nothing that says “You can’t do this in your Jedi path.”  Many will say it still lacks substance because of this.  So I find it an interesting comment and perspective.

    Thank you for sharing your perspective though.

    #151121
    Magdelene Nashira
    Participant

    I wasn’t really sure what to vote.  I voted for more revision mainly because they all looked similar enough that I think they could be combined.  The differences between them are very, very slight.

    #151122
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I don’t think you can combine them into one, because they already cover the same ideas more or less.  It’s style – which one do you like better, for any reason at all?  Because at this point, without specific suggestions about what people don’t like, no revisions are coming. ;-)

    #151138
    Jedi_Phoenix
    Moderator

    I chose Option B mainly because of the word connotations.

    I guess looking through them I really don’t notice a difference, but something just nudges me towards the middle option.  I know that doesn’t help, but I really don’t know what else to offer at this point!

    :meditate

    #151163
    Daizan
    Participant

    Just a thought but probably the most important change that could be made is to switch “A Jedi…” for “We”. That way it becomes less a pontification of what makes a Jedi Realist and more a community agreement as to what principles folks around here (and perhaps beyond) share.

    #151164
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Hmm..not sure about that.  The point is that it’s defining the Jedi path.  Without saying Jedi, it is less clear.  But perhaps it isn’t necessary.  I’ll see what everyone else says and think about it some more.

    #151165
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    Perhaps, instead of defining “a Jedi” or “…the path…”  it should be presented as ‘ aspirations and goals ‘—- since realistically, the are many ‘paths’ one can take toward being a Jedi.  As Streen and others mentioned — making this THE core code, we automatically start to limit the possible paths, potentially new ways of walking the path, and narrow the vista for those entering from ‘other areas of life’ (instead of just Star Wars / potential students of the Force).

    #151166
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Ok, you can make that claim, but I don’t see how that is the case.  There is an immense amount of flexibility within this document for many variations in paths.  It defines the minimum necessary for the Jedi path as the people who wrote this document saw it. 

    There are always two arguments against every document people attempt to write.  1.  It’s too broad and doesn’t actually define the Jedi path.  2.  It’s too narrow, and excludes other paths. 

    This defines a huge set of paths.  At some point, you have to say, this is no longer a Jedi path, but a similar path.  If a person is only training in one aspect, with no interest in training others, then I would say they are not walking the Jedi path.  Without setting some minimum standards, this path means nothing.  This has been a problem for the past 10 years, and it won’t be solved by continually saying all a person needs to do is say they’re a Jedi to be a Jedi. 

    I say this with a caveat.  I always help those who are willing to put in the work, even if they only want to study one area.  I don’t have a problem with that, they just become subject matter experts rather than Jedi Knights. 

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