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October 4, 2008 at 4:16 am #139231Jedi_PhoenixModerator
Well as I’m sure many of you are aware, the world (and particularly America as of late) are not in the best condition we could be in at the moment. As I was reading CWG (Conversations with God) 1 I came across the dialogue where God shares that humans are at the root of all these problems. I wanted to share some of my thoughts on this. If you have the book, I am looking at pages 49 and 50.
In this first part God tells us that we have created the lives we live in. Now, in order to understand this you have to understand some underlying principles; basically that God is apart of all of us and we are not seperate FROM God; also that we do have the ‘power’ to create situations in our life, though without Self-Realization we tend to do this more at a sub-concious level. We, as individuals have the choice to make the world exactly as it is, or to change it.
God goes on to argue that there are no good reasons for world hunger, no logic, no reason, and definitely nothing of compassion when it comes to something such as this. And this is definitely not a form of love or God’s plan. God’s will and plan, is our will and plan; well to be more politicially correct about it, it is the Soul’s will and plan.
The next thing we look at our things like natural disasters and the destruction of our environment. I know when things like this happen at my house, my mom likes to say, “God is trying to get a message across to people.” or others I’m sure blame God for this, saying he is at fault. You see this is the irony of human nature. We love to create, love to make realities; yet when the time comes to take ownership, we don’t even hesitate to point the finger at something or someone else! Yet, how can God, who all that is is but loving and allowing us to experience Who We Really Are create these experiences? He isn’t, we are. And it isn’t a matter of whose at fault, but rather the fact that we are making certain choices collectively which are leading to things such as natural disasters and world hunger.
Finally there is one quote that I want to touch on that relates to a lot of what I have been going through recently: “Your life is the way it is because of you and the choices you have made- or failed to make.” This was earth shattering for me. It really does sum up that idea of Personal Creation. I was allowing my negative thoughts to be blocks (and not just recent thoughts, but rather 18 years of thinking) to my Personal creation. What God is saying here, is we truly are the creator of the reality in which we exist, not even just by sending out concious thoughts, not even by sending out sub-concious thoughts, but also by our inaction. Even when we decide to not make a choice, we are still making a decision.October 4, 2008 at 12:27 pm #149586CharlesParticipant
Very good points all around. However such idealologies rarely factor in the personal choices of others in our environment also. While we may be the ultimate determiners for a large percentage of our destiny there is no denying the impact others have in our lives. Not just in determining what choices we will make by their influence, but likewise the choices they will make and force upon us. In the end, I suppose we could always make the claim “Well then your just not strong enough.” yet that is somewhat callous as I see it. Not only are their natural differances in how our minds project and create reality, there are differances in levels of energy we each possess. True we could all improve, yet its truely humbeling when we run across someone who has an awesome natural level of talent and power thereby seeming to manipulate their reality on a whim when most of us have enough trouble changing things through extensive forces of will.
The real question is, how do we see the negative choice of ourselves and others. Is it something we should fight against? Or does that go against the concepts of the Jedi as a whole?October 4, 2008 at 9:00 pm #149599Jedi_PhoenixModeratorQuote:The real question is, how do we see the negative choice of ourselves and others. Is it something we should fight against? Or does that go against the concepts of the Jedi as a whole?
Well I mean “negative” is just the same as saying something is “bad”. And that too, is just based on your own personal belief system and judgemental thinking. Normally, anything that is negative, bad, not good, whatever, is just something that doesn’t help OUR growth, yet it may help others.
Whether we are Jedi or not, if we see something we don’t like that someone else is doing, it is not our place to overstep their free will. Instead we just need to work on our own spiritual growth and let others do the same.
I need to find that quote…..something like “people act based on the world they lived in”.October 5, 2008 at 12:03 pm #149605CharlesParticipantQuote:Whether we are Jedi or not, if we see something we don’t like that someone else is doing, it is not our place to overstep their free will. Instead we just need to work on our own spiritual growth and let others do the same.
And thats where I will begin my dissagreement. For it is that exact stance that has lead the world to its current state of dismay and disillusion. For you see, it works in many ways. When we see a child hungary “that is not my child” enters into the fray. When we see a woman abused by her husband “that is not my wife” is another favored. When we see a man accousted in the streets by a thug “that is not my wallet, or face” come to mind readily enough. The first step is to be truely good, seeking the best for all people, and in that from there we must grow to act against the things we learn to not like. In wanting to do what is best for everyone we see the evils in robbery, rape, child abuse, molestation, assault, verbal abuse, and many other evils. We see that we should try to help the person who is going through this as well as stop the abuser if we can. Likewise we then grow to see that we should help the abuser overcome their pain if we can and become a better person. Failing that, we should make certain they don’t have the power to cause harm anymore.
Spiritual growth is a fine, and selfish, thing that many focus on. Now I’m not saying or implying thats your intent here but I’m making a firm, solid, and almost stone like stance on this to make sure I’m clear in my meaning. When we enter a situation where evil is present to intense degrees it is our job not as Jedi, but as good people, to do what we can to banish it. We must temper this with wisdom, meditation, and kindness else we become the evils we face day to day.
However, what your doing in your bedroom and who your doing it with is no ones buisness. Your choice of clothes, food, hair style, not to mention other preferances are not something another should intervene in. When a man spends all his free time watching the races it is no concern of mine. Lack of initiative, lack of drive, lack of spiritual seeking are not my concern as a gaurdian, protector, and friend of the world.
So I will dissagree on this point. I’d say if a regular persons responsibility is to do what is best for those around them, then that goes trippely more for the Jedi.October 5, 2008 at 4:35 pm #149606Jedi_PhoenixModerator
And here begins my rebuttal:
Evil is something which is not in accord with our own spiritual growth and the will of the Force. Just because we have deemed it “evil” does not mean that we have neither the authority nor the right to stop someone else from acting in such a way. “What you judge, judges you; what you condemn, condemns you.”
“Lack of initiative, lack of drive, lack of spiritual seeking are not my concern as a gaurdian, protector, and friend of the world.”
Does this not just counter what you were saying; for is it not these exact qualities in a human being that causes them such disconnect from their Higher Selves that they DO these “evil things”?
“So I will dissagree on this point. I’d say if a regular persons responsibility is to do what is best for those around them, then that goes trippely more for the Jedi.”
And so what IS best for someone to do to others around them? Certainly it’s by setting an example, for us, as Jedi. We must live lives of fortitude, peace, serenity, and happiness. When we are in this state, it is noticed by and trickled down to others; this is the greatest way in which to help the situations of the world.
However, don’t get me wrong in saying that we should NEVER help anyone. Human beings do have this intrinsic belief that it is our “job” to help others. That my friend, is a task we Self impose. We don’t HAVE to do anything, but we choose to do things, such as helping someone mugged because it “feels good,” or helps our spiritual growth. Of course, we must make sure we are prepared for the task at hand as well. Going against a mugger may not be the wisest choice if we have no protection (either some form of weapon, or more likely something like martial arts).
I believe our tasks as Jedi is to help others by helping our Selves. While this may sound selfish, it’s just fact. What good can a Jedi be to others if they have not strived for high levels spiritually, emotionally, physically, and mentally? When we do these things, then it is in our “right” (so to speak) to help others.October 6, 2008 at 1:39 pm #149616CharlesParticipant
Good points all around, on the part of those lackings however. Simply put, many people lack drive, initiative, and spiritual seeking and yet never do anything to hurt or harm anyone. In fact the largest portion of the population it seems lacks in all forms of drives and seekings. People do most evil things out of the need for power over others directly. Likewise I’ve met a number of people who have made strong spiritual connections who are as close to pure evil as you can get. The only thing currently standing between them, and everyone else, is law.
Likewise if leading by example where enough the world would already be a perfect place. Sadly, leading by example is a POOR solution in most situations. Strength comes from action.
What ever happened I ask to doing what is right, what is just, and what is with honor simply because it is? Constantly people are arguing for some moral ambiguity on issues that have none. Rape, assault, killing, robbery, there are no good reasons for these things.
However you are right, no one HAS to do anything. It might be expecting to much of the Jedi to want to do this. All tasks are self imposed in the end though.
I will conclude in saying, it is not that we should help others by helping ourselves, it is we should help oursevles become the best we can be so that we CAN and WILL go out and help others. Otherwise this path becomes one of selfish desire. The Jedi where always described as “Selfless” so therefore all the power, knowledge, and skill gained should go toward helping other people. Perhaps this is what your saying, what you intend, in which case my appologies if it seems like I’m beating a dead horse on this one.
However I stand by this, example is not enough. Action is required.October 6, 2008 at 5:34 pm #149617MemnoichParticipant
Let me share a story from Ben Franklin:
There was a man who died and was being taken to heaven by angels. But first, they wanted to show him hell (just for the hell of it I guess).
The angels then took him to a place where there was a great bowl, so great that it was as big as a lake. The bowl was filled with a nutritious stew. All the way around the sides of this bowl were people. Emaciated, starving, miserable people. These people had spoons to eat the stew with, that were long enough to reach it from the shore (about 12 feet). The trouble was, while they could scoop up the stew into the spoon, they could not get it into their mouths because the spoons were so long the stew would fall off before they could get it to their mouths. So here were all these pathetic people, suffering and moaning in agony, constantly trying to eat the food that was abundantly in front of them – all in vain. Next, the angels took the man to heaven. To his surprise, he saw the same scene! There it was, a giant lake-like bowl of the same stew, surrounded by people with 12 foot long spoons. Yet something was different here – all these people were smiling, happy, and healthy looking!
“Why? What is the difference here that these people are happy and well fed?”, the man said to the angels.
They replied, “Have you not eyes to see?”. The man looked more carefully, and observed that one person would scoop up the stew, and bring it to the mouth of another. Then someone else would scoop up stew and feed it to the other.
The angels smiled and said, “Here the people feed each other. Here are the people that learned the way of Love.”
So in answer to the question of the post, Yes we ALL are to blame.October 6, 2008 at 11:41 pm #149618Mindas ArranParticipantQuote:Well I mean “negative” is just the same as saying something is “bad”. And that too, is just based on your own personal belief system and judgemental thinking. Normally, anything that is negative, bad, not good, whatever, is just something that doesn’t help OUR growth, yet it may help others.
There is much talk lately of good being a matter of perspective. We know what is good. We know what is not good. Murder is bad. It doesn’t help our growth. It doesn’t help anyone else’s either. Rape is bad. Taking things that don’t belong to you is bad. Hate is bad. Rage is bad. Jealousy is bad. Breaking oaths and trust is bad. We know these things as children.Quote:Whether we are Jedi or not, if we see something we don’t like that someone else is doing, it is not our place to overstep their free will. Instead we just need to work on our own spiritual growth and let others do the same.
If what they do is harming others we have every right to stop them. If you see someone kicking a child, surely you’re not going to stand idle and let them work on their spiritual growth when they get around to it… If what they are doing isn’t harming anyone, it’s of no concern to anyone in the first place.October 7, 2008 at 12:23 am #149622JaxKeymaster
Actually, I’ve known many people for whom being raped was crucial for their life path. As was their struggle with addiction, health problems, or even murdering someone (I don’t know someone personally where that was the case, but I’ve read of some). So yes, no matter how much you fight it, everything is relative in the world.
But, that doesn’t mean we sit idly by. Everything we do in our life, and everything we choose not to do, defines who we are. If you choose to get involved in a situation, that’s your decision and defines who you are in that moment. But be very careful in assuming you are always doing the right thing.
What is the difference between enabling and helping? The intent is the same – to help the other person. But enabling crosses that line to hindering and preventing growth.
The way life works, we experience situations to further understand, become aware of, or learn something. For instance, if you are going off your path, there will be messages and experiences that alert you to this. They start small, as gentle nudges, which increase in intensity until the message is heard. If you interfere with all the gentle nudges, all that’s left is the harsh messages that are the last ditch efforts to get the person’s attention.
I know I’m being vague, I’m a little under the weather and struggling to find a good example that won’t lead to more distraction from the message here.
I know I or Phoenix aren’t going to convince you of this relative truth from each person’s experience. If you take nothing else from this I’d ask that you realize that it’s not about excusing inaction, but realizing that every choice you make defines you. And secondly, that it’s important to follow your higher wisdom to know when to interfere and when to step aside to best promote growth in those around you. That’s why we cultivate our connection to the Force, so we know best what to do. Sometimes we don’t know, and we just have to choose, but the more we train, the more we cultivate our own growth, the more good choices we make.October 7, 2008 at 9:56 am #149623Mindas ArranParticipantQuote:Actually, I’ve known many people for whom being raped was crucial for their life path.
You honestly expect me to believe that there are ‘many people’ out there saying, “Wow, my life was a mess. Thank goodness I got raped and got life figured out!”. If I walk up to a random person and punch them in the mouth, it wasn’t because a person needed a life lesson, or that their higher self was calling me to do it.Quote:I know I or Phoenix aren’t going to convince you of this relative truth from each person’s experience.
I would be convinced if it were, in fact, truth. As it is, it sounds like some type of misguided victim escapism/justification. If your theory is correct we should pardon anyone who does any harm to another and then promote them as spiritual teachers.Quote:… realizing that every choice you make defines you.
I agree that every decision we make (or do not make) defines us.
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