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  • #191852
    Brandel Valico
    Participant

    You did note that your source is about gun related murders going down. Not that all murders went down

    Quote:
    It systematically reviewed the evidence from around the world on gun laws and gun violence, looking to see if the best studies come to similar conclusions. It is the first such study to look at the international research in this way.
    The authors are careful to note that their findings do not conclusively prove that gun restrictions reduce gun deaths. However, they did find a compelling trend whereby new restrictions on gun purchasing and ownership tended to be followed by a decline in gun deaths.

    It says so itself. Note the “Gun Deaths”

    Quote:
    First, and most importantly, that gun violence declined after countries pass a raft of gun laws at the same time: “The simultaneous implementation of laws targeting multiple firearms restrictions is associated with reductions in firearm deaths,” the study finds.

    Note again Firearm deaths

    Feel free to read through the rest of the source you offered, it repeats the same phrases several times. Though it does note that in 7 South African cities the overall crime rate reduced that is the only time it says so.

    This is actually what I’m talking about when I say statistics get skewed biased on the views of the agenda of the group or person on both sides of this issue

    #191853
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Perhaps I’m confusing it with a different article, I’ll try to go back through the various things I read when I have time again. It wasn’t something repeated a lot, perhaps just once.

    #191854
    Jax
    Keymaster

    No, it is in there. Just not the focus so not mentioned as much.

    Quote:
    South Africa’s comprehensive Firearm Control Act, passed in 2000, contained all these measures. One study found that firearm homicides in five major South African cities decreased by 13.6 percent per year for the next five years. “Reductions in nonfirearm homicides were also observed,” Santaella-Tenorio et al. note, “although not as pronounced as the ones observed for firearm homicides.”
    #191855
    Jax
    Keymaster

    And here:

    Quote:
    Austria’s 1997 firearm law, similarly, required background checks, limited access to powerful firearms, and imposed rules about how gun owners had to store their guns. Santaella-Tenorio reviewed two studies on Austria’s 1997 law, both of which found evidence that the law had reduced deaths. According to one of them, firearm homicides went down by 4.8 percent, while suicides went down by 9.9 percent.

    The argument could be made that suicides shouldn’t go down, since if they want to die they’d find another way, right? Except that they didn’t. Either because they used a less effective way, or didn’t want to die as badly if it was a slow death.

    #191856
    Brandel Valico
    Participant

    I noted the South African study though I messed up the number of cities. This doesn’t though change that overall this is an anomaly not the majority.

    As for suicides and the study of Austria again one anomaly doesn’t change the issue that overall this simply isn’t the case (Based on the above shared sources). Nor would suicide be considered a homicide thus not really part of this issue.

    #191857
    Jax
    Keymaster

    They mention the suicide issue in multiple places, and in other studies that I’ve read about. Typically suicides go down because there’s less chance to screw it up. And most suicide attempts are regretted and not attempted again. Thus, if you have to use a less effective method there’s a better chance you will live and keep living, no longer trying to kill yourself.

    #191858
    Brandel Valico
    Participant

    I can see the logic in the suicide aspect of this I’d have to look up the stats to confirm it which I haven’t so I’ll assume its true true enough as it does make logical sense to me. Though again not really a homicide issue or a gun violence issue in my view. Would you consider it as such?

    #191859
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I do view the suicide issue as part of it, as most people regret a suicide attempt when it fails. They are just too deep into the darkness to recognize that before making the choice. If guns are harder to access they can’t make that mistake to begin with and will either not try or try something else that is less effective. Either way, lives are saved.

    #191860
    Jax
    Keymaster

    Here’s a quick link on the study I recall most recently hearing about. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/

    #191861
    Kol Drake
    Moderator

    Samantha Bee addresses the issue… pardon her language…

    >> Samantha Bee talks about the latest shooting incident. <<

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