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  • #138676
    Loremaster
    Participant

    Lady Qadira alerted us at the FA to this article.  I am interested to see what everyone thinks about it. 

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/80fa0a2c-49ef-11dc-9ffe-0000779fd2ac.html

    Loremaster

    #145544
    Jax
    Keymaster

    I read about a similar claim a few years ago in Discover magazine.  It certainly makes sense.  And, what I’m reading in other metaphysical circles reinforces this.  We’re on a downward spiral because we’ve lost touch with what is important and what made this country great (to use an overused phrase).  But, the more we simplify our own lives, the better we will be as our country is shaken into awakening. 

    #145545
    inari
    Participant

    I would say that I conditionally agree with this, but the situation is also different from Rome because many of the Western countries are actually experiencing the same or similar problems as the US, though possibly not to the same degree. Rome failed in large part because it overextended itself, so in that manner perhaps it is similar, but I believe the issue is more complex these days.

    I’ve been watching the recent hysteria on the stock and financial markets, here in Australia, because of the US sub-prime morgage problem, for example. New Zealand is having similar problems and I wouldn’t be surprised if Japan and Britain were also affected.

    When will humanity learn? How far will we fall this time, and will a lesson come from it?

    Inari

    #145548
    Nairys
    Participant

    There was a documentary a while back titled “Why We Fight”, based on Dwight D. Eisenhower’s Farewell address to the nation.
    In it he mentioned the military-industrial complex and the dangers therin.
    One of the parts that stick out most prominently, for me, was a memo that then Defense Sec. Dick Cheney put out he wanted America to be the “New Rome”, i.e an American Empire on every part of the planet. This is a frightening thought. I watched it in conjunction with another film “Death Of A President”. A fictional Documentary about the assassination of President Bush later this year. I had to constantly remind myself it was indeed just a fictional account of someone’s imagination, but if that did happen, we could see V.P. Cheney’s dreams come to fruition.
    Just a thought.
    Nairys

    #145549
    Jax
    Keymaster

    This is why most people who mention assassination specify that Cheney would be assassinated first.  Note, I’m not encouraging assassination, just bringing up a point.  :-)

    #145815
    Kol Drake
    Moderator
    Quote:
    There was a documentary a while back titled “Why We Fight”, based on Dwight D. Eisenhower’s Farewell address to the nation.
    In it he mentioned the military-industrial complex and the dangers therin.
    One of the parts that stick out most prominently, for me, was a memo that then Defense Sec. Dick Cheney put out he wanted America to be the “New Rome”, i.e an American Empire on every part of the planet.

    ???

    Neil H. McElroy — October 9, 1957 – December 1, 1959
    6th Secretary of Defense under the Eisenhower Administration

    Sworn in not long after the successful launch of the Soviet Sputnik satellite.  This helped to spur the escalation of the U.S. / Soviet ‘races’.

    +++++

    Richard (Dick) B. Cheney — March 21, 1989- January 20, 1993
    17th Secretary of Defense under the (first) Bush Administration

    Asked to take the position after the ‘first choice’ declined.  Attended Yale University, Casper College, and the University of Wyoming — B.A. (1965) and M.A. (1966) degrees. He went on to further graduate study in political science at the University of Wisconsin, and moved to Washington as a congressional fellow for the 1968-69 year.    Held several posts as staff in the WHite House.  Left and won a seat representing Wyoming in the House of Representatives.

    +++++

    During the (first) Bush administration as Sec. of Def. (1994), he gave a more cautious view and well thought out advice concerning the Middle East/Iraq. 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I 

    +++++

    Many toss out the term ‘New Rome’…  (google ‘cheney’ & new rome… lots of copies of editorials & rants)…  closest I can come to a more …. manifest destiny….. was the report released in 1997.

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

    Next was the 2000 report from the same group:

    Rebuilding America’s Defenses,”  — a 2000 report by the Project for the New American Century, listed 27 people as having attended meetings or contributed papers in preparation of the report.  Among them are six who have since assumed key defense and foreign policy positions in the Bush administration. And the report seems to have become a blueprint for Bush’s foreign and defense policy.

    Paul Wolfowitz
    Political science doctorate from University of Chicago and dean of the international relations program at Johns Hopkins University during the 1990s. Served in the Reagan State Department, moved to the Pentagon during the first Bush administration as undersecretary of defense for policy. Sworn in as deputy defense secretary in March 2001.

    John Bolton
    Yale Law grad who worked in the Reagan administration as an assistant attorney general. Switched to the State Department in the first Bush administration as assistant secretary for international organization affairs. Sworn in as undersecretary of state for arms control and international security, May 2001.

    Eliot Cohen
    Harvard doctorate in government who taught at Harvard and at the Naval War College. Now directs strategic studies at Johns Hopkins and is the author of several books on military strategy. Was on the Defense Department’s policy planning staff in the first Bush administration and is now on Donald Rumsfeld’s Defense Policy Board.

    I. Lewis ( Scooter) Libby
    Law degree from Columbia (Yale undergrad). Held advisory positions in the Reagan State Department. Was a partner in a Washington law firm in the late ’80s before becoming deputy undersecretary of defense for policy in the first Bush administration (under Dick Cheney). Now is the vice president’s chief of staff.

    Dov Zakheim
    Doctorate in economics and politics from Oxford University. Worked on policy issues in the Reagan Defense Department and went into private defense consulting during the 1990s. Was foreign policy adviser to the 2000 Bush campaign. Sworn in as undersecretary of defense (comptroller) and chief financial officer for the Pentagon, May 2001.

    Stephen Cambone
    Political science doctorate from Claremont Graduate School. Was in charge of strategic defense policy at the Defense Department in the first Bush administration. Now heads the Office of Program, Analysis and Evaluation at the Defense Department.

    A lot of folk who obviously had a point of view and agenda to push forward.

    +++++

    This kind of ‘stuff’ happens when the ‘common folk’ basically give a shrug and pretend like it’s not their doing — that they have no power to mess with the political machine in Washington.   As far as I remember, it’s still a REPUBLIC.   It is the right of the people to make known their views, opinions, idealogies…. by supporting and voting for those candidates who best share their ideals & wants.  ANd their power comes from voicing their views with advocacy and VOTES.  Why some of these idiots are allowed to be ‘re-elected’ term after term is a mystery to me… other than the total lack of commitment of those who whine about change and never ‘do’ anything other than whine about it.

    By basically ignoring what is going on ‘inside the beltway’, most have abdicated their rights to an elite few who are NOT looking at for the National Interest.

    #145838
    inari
    Participant

    The American public aren’t the only ones guilty of this mate, Australian’s are just as bad.

    Tampa
    The ‘Pacific Solution’
    ‘Interest rates will not rise under a Liberal Government’.
    Haneef

    How can so many reasonably intelligent people swallow so much rubbish?

    #145845
    Yeelan
    Participant

    As are the Germans.
    But there is the scent of a change in the air. I think the next years will be exciting. The people will play this game no longer…
    :fight

    #145852
    Ares1982
    Participant

    The problem with North America is that we have a narrow, self involved, short term outlook on the world. That is not to say all are like this or that this is just in North America. On avg, only a few of the voting population really understand the political game. For the rest, during elections, all they remember are those 20 sec sound bites designed by advertisers to help their candidate win.

    #145934
    Innocence_Lost
    Participant

    IMO all things must come to and end sooner or later. To take a quote from the scorpian king “no kingdom last forever, and that is the destiny of all kingdoms.” Not trying ot be pessimistic, just realistic.

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