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Institute for Jedi Realist Studies - Rise of Skywalker Discussion - Spoilers - Institute for Jedi Realist Studies

Rise of Skywalker Discussion - Spoilers

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Nick created the topic: Rise of Skywalker Discussion - Spoilers

SPOILERS but not heavy spoilers.

So, at first, I didn't like a lot of the choices and rolled my eyes at the film while watching it quite a few times. It was fun and did some creative things. But as a Star Wars movie, it fits in with the Prequels style more than the others better films. As a Skywalker story conclusion, I feel it misses the mark, because Luke and Leia hardly impact the story, Anakin and Vader are only background material, and Ben Solo as a Skywalker is not really pushed forward.

I feel it is actually a Palpaltine story conclusion, which should have ended in Return of the Jedi. Maybe the 9 film saga is really a Sith story and the Rise of Skywalker is meant to be an end to the Sith. I really think that when they developed the concept for Episodes 7-9, they had a roadmap for what they wanted to do in the three films with Han, Luke, Leia, Rey, Ben, and even Palpaltine. You can see parts of the setup for the First Order and Palpaltine reveal in the Battlefront II solo game, Aftermath book series, and Rebels cartoon. It appears that JJ Abrams added to the story Snoke, Finn, Poe, and BB-8, which were all hits. Rian Johnson was given the task to keep to the original roadmap and utilize all these new popular characters in some fashion in The Last Jedi. Then they let the criticism steer choices in the Rise of Skywalker and made attempts to undo some of the unpopular stuff from that film. Carrie Fisher's untimely death hamstrung them for finishing her arc properly.

Think about this: if Oscar Isaac is not cast as Poe creating this super charismatic character, then Poe probably dies in the Tie fighter crash in The Force Awakens. Take him out of The Last Jedi and we have a different movie. Instead of Finn's code breaker mission , maybe we get a story of Finn trying to run away again to protect or find Rey, but he learns to fight for what he loves (and discovers what he loves in the Resistance), because he is stuck with the Resistance people and Leia on the ship. When he is confronts Captain Phasma, it feels earned instead of forced. When he decides to sacrifice himself to save the Resistance but is thwarted, it feels right instead of forced (Rose almost killed both of them for nothing!). Then in the Rise of Skywalker, instead of being mostly sidelined, Finn takes the place of Poe in the story, except in being a hot shot pilot (they could establish a new side character in The Last Jedi who can be that person, perhaps Snap Wexley or Tallissan Lintra or Zay Versio). And Leia can pass on the rebellious leadership legacy to Finn. And instead Leia's leadership torch passing to Poe, we get a Leia story in Last Jedi where she is grappling with the loss of Han, her son's dark side fall at the hands of Snoke, and Rey's attempt to "save" Ben Solo. It is crazy none of that is covered. At the end of The Last Jedi, Luke has passed the Jedi torch to Rey. Then, Rise of Skywalker would be Leia passing the torch of the Skywalker legacy to Rey as it was intended. Rey is the new hope for good versus evil and Finn is the new champion against authoritarian government in the series. Two nobodies rising up to create their own legacies.

Think about this: Luke's last line in The Last Jedi is "No. Strike me down in anger and I'll always be with you. Just like your father." Han's Force ghost appearance is just a Force vision. Han is not really there, but Luke could have come back as a Force ghost as well to resolve their clash and help Ben decide how to return to the light and make amends for all his wrongs, which is why he felt he could never return home or face Leia again. Leia could have also appeared and given him her forgiveness. Carrie Fisher's passing made it difficult and they did the best they could with it.

Anyway, those are my thoughts about the film and series. Feel free to comment on my thoughts or share your own.

If you are confused about the Palpaltine story, then you will have to do some expanded universe research:

Urban Acolyte is a great channel on YouTube discussing Star Wars and Jedi philosophy. He has a really great review for Rise of Skywalker breaking down the connections to all the other films and canon. After watching the review, I feel a bit more comfortable with the film itself focusing on Palpaltine's return and hope the JJ Abrams 192 minute cut helps make those connections for people less spun up on the canon. From what I read about the Abrams cut, it isn't likely, but I can hope for now.

Anyway, check out the Spoiler Review video:


Or the spoiler-free review:


I still think they screwed up with the Rey backstory and stupid knife. Bringing back Palpaltine and not addressing Anakin's possible origin at the hands of Palpaltine was their biggest mistake, though. His death and the end of the Sith should have been tied to the beginning and end of the Skywalker story. Oh well.

"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err."

--Mahatma Gandhi
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Johannes (Yoshio) replied the topic: Rise of Skywalker Discussion - Spoilers

I just have seen the move yesterday and it had been better than I had been expecting. But, and that is just my opinion, they could have done and make much more out of the latest three movies. My feeling stays that, if these three movies would have been the initial ones, Star Wars would never had made to the cult and status it gained.
“Rise of Skywalker” is a good Sci-Fi movie but still and unfortunately nothing more than that for me. Therefore I’m not feeling sorry for that this has now come to an end.
My big hope is that the coming new movies are more in line and of the style of “The Mandalorian” than of the latest three movies.
One side note, as for Finn, I had been waiting for Rey telling Finn that she can feel the Force in him and would like, if he wishes to do so, help him to train in it.
Anyway, that is all from my side. As said, I’m happy that this now came to an end and I will be carefully watching for what there is to come!?

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Taryn G'urnt'a replied the topic: Rise of Skywalker Discussion - Spoilers

Rise of Skywalker certainly had its issues. Culminating Rey and Ben's relationship as a romance feels icky to me. They certainly had a strong connection, but that's not love.
Rey claiming the Skywalker name is nicely symbolic, but I feel like owning the Palpatine name and rising above it, not letting her grandfather's evil define her (as much as Ben let his grandfather's evil define him), would be more powerful. Of course, I'm of the mind that Rey should have been "nobody" instead of a Palpatine anyway, but *shrugs.*
And speaking of Palpatine... Really, "somehow the Emperor..." It's lazy.
I do wish they had Finn set up as Force-sensitive. There was so much potential to develop his character.
Still, something about the RoS just felt good to me. For me, it did carry the spirit of the original trilogy, and inspired me to dive back into the expanded universe materials, and try to rewatch the prequels with a little more accepting spirit. Aye, when they came out, all I could think was, "Jar-Jar is so dumb and yuck, too much ham-handed romance," but I really am trying to appreciate them for what they are. All in all, right now I'm really happy with RoS.
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Kol Drake replied the topic: Rise of Skywalker Discussion - Spoilers

Now, I don't believe it's been done for the last 3 movies... but an Internet person did a couple of "What if the Prequels were good"... where he came at the movie from a different perspective. It made alot of sense to me and would have still dovetailed into the original trilogy well.

I really wish JJAbrams had actually taken up the challenge set by director Rian Johnson from The Last Jedi and gone on to address the 'new series arc' that way instead of basically trying to re-tell the original series (again) as Abrams did in The Force Awakens.

I agree with you, I would have liked Rey to stand proudly and use her Palpatine name... but, I can understand (sort of) how Rey saw Luke and Leia as 'surrogate parents' / having more of an impact on her life than 'daddy P'.

And ya, the whole Rey + Ren thing felt icky to me.
Now, if Abrams had somehow come out with some techno / magical babble about how Darth Snoke had somehow linked the two mentally/Force-ably so their two 'empty parts' made a working 'whole' Force creation... or something... that would have been fine with me. Instead, he's trying to become Darth-y again and then he's not so that makes it 'okay' to feel like there has been a redemption and a relationship... was weird.

BUT... as a 'go see it with no expectations'.. it was a decent movie.
I *do* wish they had not suddenly tossed out the Finn and Rose Tico thing. Heck, other than a few 'background person shots', Rose was not even 'there there'. Maybe Diseny will wise up and do an 'off shot' movie with Finn and Rose someday?
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Taryn G'urnt'a replied the topic: Rise of Skywalker Discussion - Spoilers

"What If the Prequels Were Good" sounds hilarious. I'm going to have to find that.
I hear a lot of JJ Abrams vs Rion Johnson fans, and I can't say I'm strongly for one or the other, but aye, as much as I love the nostalgic feel, following some new plotlines instead of just rehashing would have been nice. It's a huge galaxy. There are a lot of stories to tell. Of course, I'm still a little bitter that all the old novels aren't canon anymore >.<
I totally grok why she chose to carry the Skywalker legacy. It's certainly a huge part of who she became, and of course, the name of the film. lol I just like the idea that's she's been searching so fervently for who she is, and then to claim and rise above her family background, redeem the name for her and her parents' sake. I get it though.
Oh, right!? Rose/Finn was such a great dynamic. And Rose on her own is a really cool character. I hate that she fell into the background in RoS.
I see what you mean about "linking" Rey & Ben. That would have been a cool way to do it, and I think a more true reflection of their relationship. I'm not gonna deny that they had the potential for romance, but all of a sudden, yay-he's-redeemed-now-he-can-finally-accept-my-love when it's been horribly abusive up til that last bit? No, thanks.
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