How do I view the Force?
- Posts: 254
- Thank you received: 14
Xhaiden replied the topic: Re: How do I view the Force?
I have a survey running on the Force and I am in the process of collecting responses. I would love to see some of the responses written here in the survey, for those that would be willing, it is only about 9 questions. There is almost 30 responses so far and I am hoping to publish the results when there is around 50-60 people that have replied. I find peoples thoughts on the Force to be very interesting, and through the responses in the survey I have seen thus far, there isn't as much disagreement in what people think of the Force as many would think. You can find the survey here, www.jedionline.org/polls_surveys.html and just select Force Survey. Don't mean to advertise but I find this discussion fits in very well with it.
Ok, back on topic ..........
- Magdelene Nashira
Magdelene Nashira replied the topic: Re: How do I view the Force?
If the Force had a will, what stops it from exercising its will on the universe?
Nothing. God can and has exercised His will on the universe. For most practical purposes, however, He chooses not to.
How could something happen that is against the will of the Force?
This is complicated. As I would see it, the long term answer is that it doesn't. On the short-term it would appear that things do happen against the will of the force as individuals within the force have free will which is the will of God. So this means that something could have a part in the will of God without being in His will. I'm confusing myself with that statement so I really don't expect you to follow it. Sorry. I guess maybe the best way to say that is that it is a paradox. I guess I could say that I could choose to carry out an action that is against the will of God, yet the overall will of God will not be undone by my actions because God's will cannot be overcome. God cannot be overcome. However, if I were to choose instead to act in accordance with God's will, my own power would increase. Hopefully that explains my view of it.
What does this mean to those people who have given themselves over to the will of the Force?
I think that depends on what they mean when they say this. I do not see it as being the same as giving yourself over to your own will. I would consider it as saying I was giving myself over to the will of God, in which case my power would increase. However, even if a person were to give themselves over to their own will their power would still increase to a certain extent. To explain with an example, I have weight problems. The problem is simply that my body cravings are dictating what I will eat. If I am able to give myself over to my mental will, I have power over these cravings. It is really quite difficult to train oneself to act in accordance to what one believes rather than what one's body dictates and requires retraining ourself to follow the will of the mind rather than the body. Now if I were to give the same situation over to God, the power would increase. So I work at trying to do that. Turning it over to the power of God also avoids getting sidetracked onto a path you didn't intend to follow. So will writing yourself post it notes and placing them in places you often look. The thing is, to train yourself out of an undesired habit you have to retrain yourself with repitition the same way you learned it in the first place. It's one thing to make up one's mind to make a change. Quite another thing to actually do it. God will often bring these things back to our attention when we have drifted off course should we submit it to His will.
Understanding that we don't need power and freedom also gives us power and freedom. Yeah, I know. I won't even try to explain that one. You have to learn that one from living it. Or ask Streen. I understand it enough to understand it but not enough to explain it. Sort of like the Tao.
Understanding that your life is created by you gives you power and freedom.
Here is where I differ. To me it would make no sense to follow the guidance of something that was not intelligent. In order for any entity to provide any kind of guidance it would have to have intelligence. Or I could ask a rock for advice. There is a communication that comes back to us from the Force, so to me this would only be possible through the prescense of a deity. And in my view, it's the same deity with a new understanding of that same deity.
That having been said, we can still use the Force for guidance.
I personally find the idea of the Force being there, but not interfering in my life, rather freeing. I know that my life is my choice, and that whatever I choose is ok. Because of this I try to choose consciously how I live my life, in all moments, rather than letting others choose for me.
I understand that. No one wants to be interfered with. I don't consider the prescense of God or the Force to be an interferance. I have just learned from experience in choices made in the past that with my choices comes responsibility and consequence. I find the guidance from God/the Force to be freeing in that I am less likely to make a mistake if I operate on that guidance and in cooperation with it. No one is choosing for me. I am still choosing and I am responsible. I will make good choices. I will make bad choices. But in this way eventually I learn. But a part of what I am learning is that I can trust this guidance when I properly understand it. But it takes time and it is not easy. I often err in my understanding of the guidance that comes through the force. But then again, I look at it as a learning process.
"Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are." - Kurt Cobain
- Topic Author
- Academy Principal
Jax replied the topic: Re: How do I view the Force?
I completely disagree. And I think the idea that God has a will is the fundamental disagreement. My sources have shared time and time again that God has to will. This is what resonates with me, this is what makes sense to me, thus this is what I go with. This isn't what I was taught growing up, but I have my own mind and have come to this conclusion on my own. I believe God loves us enough to allow us total and complete freedom, which means never imposing a will upon anyone - ever. To have a will and impose it requires God to have a view of right and wrong, which is a human concept. From the spiritual level of the All, there is no such thing.
God can and has exercised His will on the universe. For most practical purposes, however, He chooses not to.
I think we severely limit our understanding of the Force and God by claiming there is a will that imposes itself into our existence. To think that there is such a thing as right and wrong. Those are human ideas that mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Until we can let go of this small ideas and realize that we've had some crucial things incorrect for a long time, we limit ourselves also.
In fact, you could. And you just might be surprised at what you learn from that rock. It's human arrogance to think that intelligence only exists in the way that we define it.
Here is where I differ. To me it would make no sense to follow the guidance of something that was not intelligent. In order for any entity to provide any kind of guidance it would have to have intelligence. Or I could ask a rock for advice.
No grand deity, orchestrating the events of the universe, is necessary. I don't have to go through a god to talk to a tree. Or even to communicate with someone in a dream. We're all directly connected through the force, without any deity required. Stretch your mind, see the possibilities.
There is a communication that comes back to us from the Force, so to me this would only be possible through the prescense of a deity. And in my view, it's the same deity with a new understanding of that same deity.
I find the guidance from God/the Force to be freeing in that I am less likely to make a mistake if I operate on that guidance and in cooperation with it. No one is choosing for me. I am still choosing and I am responsible. I will make good choices. I will make bad choices. But in this way eventually I learn. But a part of what I am learning is that I can trust this guidance when I properly understand it. But it takes time and it is not easy. I often err in my understanding of the guidance that comes through the force. But then again, I look at it as a learning process.
Nowhere in this paragraph is will. If I go to the computer to research something, and I make a decision based on that research, the computer and the data is not using their will. I am taking in data and making a decision. Even if I were to ask god itself about something, god will not say "this is what I want" Guidance is not the same as will. Nor is knowledge. I didn't say you couldn't communicate with god or the force. I'm saying that it does not have a will that it wants us to follow. Even spirit guides, when asked, do not tell you what they want, because it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is what we choose to do. We can ask if it's a good idea for us to do something, and whoever you are asking may be able to provide some advice, but they still cannot tell you what to do based on what they desire. It takes away freedom of choice.
Though, I will also add this disclaimer. We can only receive messages from the force at the level that we can accept them. Therefore, directly conflicting messages can come from the force at low levels of spiritual development because anything more would be too much for us to comprehend or accept. But the higher you get in spiritual truth, the fewer contradictions there are, until only one message remains. I of course believe I have found those spiritual teachers who are quite high up there. Our spirit guides agree that we are about as close as you can get to the truth while in human form. They laugh and say we'll understand the rest when we're dead. So, I speak with a certain level of confidence that comes from direct feedback to very specific questions. I know there are things I don't understand and that I'm trying to learn. But I think, on some simple things, I'm pretty darn close. Everyone is allowed their own freedom to come to their own truths however. But, I would hope everyone also continues to seek higher level truth, and not just sit where they are and accept. I think I'm pretty right many times, but I still look for deeper understanding. Being able to explain things in my own words comes from this deeper understanding, and allows me to pass along messages more clearly. Hopefully I will not have to say 'trust me' ever again. lol And in the end, without this search for understanding and depth, what do you have?