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Institute for Jedi Realist Studies - Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1) - Page 2 - Institute for Jedi Realist Studies

Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

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Setanaoko replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

I'm curious, who is the nameless person just above this reply? Does anyone know?
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Jax replied the topic: Re:Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

Someone who deleted their account before we switched to this forum software so the info is lost unfortunately.


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Aslyn replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

The whole notion of the Jedi Code was one designed to flesh out a badly-notationed philosophy that George Lucas sought to use for the Jedi - in essence, a means of adding a little philosophical 'umph' to the Jedi as part of the Star Wars universe. Fortunately other writers got a hold of it with his Expanded Universe, and did a job of making something a little more coherent. The Community adopted it years ago, and it's fair to say that it's not something likely to go away any time soon!

That said, I've had a fair amount of time to reflect upon it, and had more than a few discussions with Brandel on the topic over the years, and I've come to the conclusion that none of it should be taken at face value: the Code, if we're going to use it in context, we need to consider it's methodological implications: what does the Code aim to teach us? I would argue that it doesn't: ultimately, the Code serves as a reminder of deeper teachings, which are naturally fleshed out as one's training progresses. The Code is a process, showcasing the nature of one's training, and the development of your mindset as you progress along the Jedi path. Allow me to offer some thoughts:

The Code all moves in a sequence: first, we seek to understand our emotions - their triggers, intensities and expressions - working to develop our sense of self-awareness. As we do so, we build in the idea of a default state of mind, aiming to calm our tempestuous emotions and generate a sense of inner peace. This constitutes the first stanza.

The second focuses upon the idea of reaching out for knowledge (if you view it in a plain-text reading), but looking deeper, you find the notion of seeking Objectivity: a state whereby you can examine situations in a dispassionate perspective, pushing aside emotional and personal considerations as a means to finding the best possible solutions in a given situation, such as to generate the greatest benefit. As Jedi, we recognise that emotions have power, but are also capable of great distraction: thus, an adept must seek to train their mind to push these considerations aside, to focus on the situation right in front of you.

With There is no Passion; there is Serenity, we move towards our understanding of maintaining a sense of inner balance. Passion is obsession, and this is where it becomes possible for an individual to lose perspective: their emotions shifting wildly in a particular direction, their attentions focused completely on the object of their obsession, such that they fail to perceive the larger picture. We cannot afford to lose perspective, and must instead remain focused on the broader picture, opening ourselves to the Force and the impressions it offers us, as a means of guidance. If we lose our sense of inner balance, we cannot function effectively as Jedi.

Moving to There is no Chaos; there is Harmony, finally we come to speak of the Jedi's internal nature: combining the previous three methodologies to present an individual who is the metaphorical calm in the midst of a storm. It is the Jedi's duty to spread peace and harmony, not through enforcing peace, but rather through representing it, becoming a beacon of calm when everything around them is falling into pieces. A Jedi must inspire, help others to stay calm when panic threatens, offer guidance and support when it is required and, above all, to serve as an example of a tranquil, rational and collected individual capable of functioning effectively in high-stress situations.

Then, we come to our final stanza: a reminder that, even with the previous four taken into account, a Jedi only becomes a Master once they achieve the ability to empty themselves of their ego, to become a vessel for the Force and to do it's Will whenever required - simply because that comes naturally to them. Even the newest of students can relinquish themselves to the Force at moments, but while this often occurs at times when they feel peaceful and relaxed, they soon falter when stress and tension rises. A trained Jedi carries their sense of peace within them, and thus are able to relax and let go whenever the situation might require it: they are thus true servants of the Force, not merely aspirants. The Code therefore teaches us that this is the final step of our emotional methodology: that even death is no barrier, for the Force permeates all, and it is our ultimate duty to surrender to it.

Do feel free to call me moronic if my thoughts seem a little off, though. It is 3am ;)
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Hunter replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

i agree with the no name person

the "modified code" as it is read is the least useful of all of the codes
the more work it takes to make something meaningful
the less meaningful it actaully is

why not take something that is actually functional for a beginer and use it as the consensus introductoru code?
all the grand mystical interpretations people have for the existing code are less about the code itself and ore about the interpretative ingenuity of mystical thinkers
the layers and levels of meaning will still be persent in a more funcional code

its actually the LACK of usefullness that makes this code meaningful at all imo

because it forces one to invent meaning

the skywalker code actually gives one a model of jedi behavior
the modified code is too mystified in the appearance of wisdom and esoteria

my opinion is that the community should focus on core values and expect each jedi to write his or her own code to reflect that

in this way not only will each jedi have a personally functional and meaningful code, but the proccess of developing ones code will be a symbolic act consistent with its own function

we each ultimiately write our own codes any way, really, by choosing what to emphasize and what to ignore

so to make that into a deliberate act of personal freedom and responsibility is a necessary part of jedi development

at some point "because my master told me to" is no longer a good enough reason to do anything

the aim is self suffuciency; interdependent autonamy
not rote conformity

thats my two cents
thanks for reading

everyone has value
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Aslyn replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

the more work it takes to make something meaningful
the less meaningful it actaully is


That's one of those things that sounds like it makes sense until you actually put some thought into it. The vast majority of useful things in life appear in the abstract: philosophies that constitute the foundations for the ways in which society functions (not to mention certain Jedi-related...everything!), mathematics (seemingly abstract until you work your butt off to apply it), not to mention the more dynamic work of physics, chemistry, biology - much of which has to be theorised, tested and seen purely in the abstract until it becomes functional. To require it to be immediately meaningful from the outset simply indicates that you're not willing to put the work in.

More to the point, the Code has never, nor will it ever be, a step-by-step guide, nor directions that say "Go here, do that!". If they were, then they would be meaningless - the notion of the Code, in whatever form you care to take it, is designed to do one of several things:
  • Provoke/stimulate thought and reflection
  • Give practitioners something quick to refer back to when pausing to take a moment
  • A meditative focus, serving to prompt a flow of thought
  • A means of self-reinforcement, to enable a practitioner to remind themselves of a key tenet

The Jedi Path isn't something you hand to someone on a plate, and the whole point of giving new arrivals something like that to reflect on is to enable them to actually *think*. We're not spoonfeeding children, as we do when teaching ABCs, or to count from 1 to 10 - it's not about rote learning, but deeper, critical thinking. The Codes have never been about a singular philosophy that we require all to adopt: it's a thought-provoking door that opens on to a lot of different pathways. The simpler and more straightforward you make it, the less thinking the student must do to understand it (and, allow me to say, as a Jedi practitioner for the past 12 years, I'd never be so presumptuous as to say that I fully understand it myself!).

When all else fails, remember a simple truism: the journey is often more important than the destination. Yes, no doubt by simplifying, we could have the student learn something specific far quicker, but in doing so, we'd ignore the broader outcomes that the Code enables us to achieve: to think outside the box, to recognise how our different teachings connect to our singular path, and to provide them with opportunity to adjust and adapt what they have learned so that it applies effectively to their lives.

Let's face it, if we wanted, we could boil the Code down to a few simple thoughts:
  • Seek peace and clarity of mind over the turbulence of unchecked emotions
  • Act with open-mindedness at all times, and never miss an opportunity to learn
  • Do not allow yourself to be swayed unduly by obsessive thoughts or extreme interests: everything in moderation
  • Be the calm and reasonable being to offer the voice of rationality when emotions flare around you
  • Death is not a truly permanent state as long as the Force persists

Now, please note two things: a) I don't think that's what the Code actually means and b) that doesn't even begin to cover what the heck it actually means. But a plain-text reading might afford you such basic insights. Let's place those nice and simply for everyone to read: did you find those particularly beneficial, or meaningful? No? I didn't either. But I simplified them, so you didn't need to seek much meaning. See what I mean?

The Code, as much as I find it occasionally irksome, nonetheless has massive use among us - it's thought-provoking, and offers a truckload of different insights that take a long time to unpick and reflect on. Does that require work on your part? Absolutely. But if that's too much for any prospective student to bother with, I'd advise them to walk away now: it does not get any easier. And if it did, then would it be perfectly meaningless.
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Hunter replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

that all sounds like it makes sense until you actually put some thought into it

math is not a subject with an abstract value

it does not take any impressive level of thought to see its obvious worth and i dont have to come up with clever interpretations for why the numbers on my paycheck should have some correlation to the numbers on my time card and the numbers on my mortgage

i wonder if you read my post looking for an opportunity to learn something

or an opportunity to show someone else what they should learn

my intentions was to convey that the most valuable codes, in fact the only code real people actually live by, are the ones we write for ourselves

or maybe not write for ourselves per se but we adopt them for ourselves because they offer functional relevance to our lives

does this make sense?

from the perspective of an initiate just beginning the path, the code as it is written does not easily lend itself to anser such questions as "what kind of people should i associate with? is college right for me? are drugs really as bad as people say? does it really matter if i steal this car?"

people have to be allowed to learn and decide these kinds of things on their own

sure

but if ones code doesnt give one thetools to answer real life questions and take responsibility for real life situations then the code is quite simply trash

sorry

throw it away and write a code that you will actually use

the military has a code
its very precise about how one should carry oneself

police forces have codes
they also are very clear (ideally) as to what officers are expected to do and what they are allowed to do

the "code" here is not even a code

except in the sense that you have to decipher it

which is great if we all want to show each other how wise and philosophical we are

im not interested in that

if there is to be a formalized uniformly adopted code i want to see that it is something that a 14 yr old kid in a single mother household in a bad neighborhood can look to and it will offer direction and suggestion that will inspire him to be responsible for his life

to belive in his own light

to apply himself to personal growth and long term commitment

not some trash he can use to impress people o the internet

the code as it stands is a legitimate EXERCISE in free thinking

its valid and it has merit AS AN EXERCISE

but its a clear example of a thing whose worth is relative to the person reading and interpreting it

this means that the people who get the most benefit from it are the ones most capable of functioning well without it


this is backwards

i am not thinkng about holding on to formulas which justify my own wit

i am focused on developing and refining a system which will provide a functional and easily accessible system for the personal growth of individuals regardless of their familiarity with the subtle intricacies of that path

let me put it another way

"necessary" is defined as a thing which must be included
anything which can be discarded without significant damage is by definition un necessary

this code can be thrown away without detriment to the overall path

but the understanding that each of us is ultimately responsible for our own code

is not able to be discarded without a great detriment to the path

its a fundamental element of any path that one is responsible for ones self

where does the code say that?
only in ones interpretation of it

look up the rangers creed

or the prayer of st francis

or the precepts of stalking

these things offer consice and definite directions and instructions for an initiate, AND FOR THE EXPERIENCED PRACTITIONER

they are real codes which are used by real people to do real things

grown up people

intelligent people

capable people

jedi kinds of people

you will always be able to have philosophical playtime with a good code

but i want to see a code that holds up under the pressure of physical abuse and loneliness and uncertainty and danger and violence and moral ambiguity

thats what makes them useful as codes to live by and not simply as meditations or exercizes for philosophical playtime

everyone has value
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Hunter replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

Aslyn wrote:

the more work it takes to make something meaningful
the less meaningful it actaully is


That's one of those things that sounds like it makes sense until you actually put some thought into it. The vast majority of useful things in life appear in the abstract: philosophies that constitute the foundations for the ways in which society functions (not to mention certain Jedi-related...everything!), mathematics (seemingly abstract until you work your butt off to apply it), not to mention the more dynamic work of physics, chemistry, biology - much of which has to be theorised, tested and seen purely in the abstract until it becomes functional. To require it to be immediately meaningful from the outset simply indicates that you're not willing to put the work in.

More to the point, the Code has never, nor will it ever be, a step-by-step guide, nor directions that say "Go here, do that!". If they were, then they would be meaningless - the notion of the Code, in whatever form you care to take it, is designed to do one of several things:
    <li>Provoke/stimulate thought and reflection</li>
    <li>Give practitioners something quick to refer back to when pausing to take a moment</li>
    <li>A meditative focus, serving to prompt a flow of thought</li>
    <li>A means of self-reinforcement, to enable a practitioner to remind themselves of a key tenet</li>

The Jedi Path isn't something you hand to someone on a plate, and the whole point of giving new arrivals something like that to reflect on is to enable them to actually *think*. We're not spoonfeeding children, as we do when teaching ABCs, or to count from 1 to 10 - it's not about rote learning, but deeper, critical thinking. The Codes have never been about a singular philosophy that we require all to adopt: it's a thought-provoking door that opens on to a lot of different pathways. The simpler and more straightforward you make it, the less thinking the student must do to understand it (and, allow me to say, as a Jedi practitioner for the past 12 years, I'd never be so presumptuous as to say that I fully understand it myself!).

When all else fails, remember a simple truism: the journey is often more important than the destination. Yes, no doubt by simplifying, we could have the student learn something specific far quicker, but in doing so, we'd ignore the broader outcomes that the Code enables us to achieve: to think outside the box, to recognise how our different teachings connect to our singular path, and to provide them with opportunity to adjust and adapt what they have learned so that it applies effectively to their lives.

Let's face it, if we wanted, we could boil the Code down to a few simple thoughts:
    <li>Seek peace and clarity of mind over the turbulence of unchecked emotions</li>
    <li>Act with open-mindedness at all times, and never miss an opportunity to learn</li>
    <li>Do not allow yourself to be swayed unduly by obsessive thoughts or extreme interests: everything in moderation</li>
    <li>Be the calm and reasonable being to offer the voice of rationality when emotions flare around you</li>
    <li>Death is not a truly permanent state as long as the Force persists</li>

Now, please note two things: a) I don't think that's what the Code actually means and b) that doesn't even begin to cover what the heck it actually means. But a plain-text reading might afford you such basic insights. Let's place those nice and simply for everyone to read: did you find those particularly beneficial, or meaningful? No? I didn't either. But I simplified them, so you didn't need to seek much meaning. See what I mean?

The Code, as much as I find it occasionally irksome, nonetheless has massive use among us - it's thought-provoking, and offers a truckload of different insights that take a long time to unpick and reflect on. Does that require work on your part? Absolutely. But if that's too much for any prospective student to bother with, I'd advise them to walk away now: it does not get any easier. And if it did, then would it be perfectly meaningless.


the more i read this the more i think "holy crap what is this dude talking about?

go read your last post in the obiwan is a jerk thread

you equate learning how to read and how to count with being spoon fed

i want you to read three books written by or about special forces operators

not some off the wall dime store adolescent fantasy

but something that is founded on real world special forces units

i remembder the name richard marcinko

or watch some youtube documentaries on airborn rangers, navy SEALs, mariine recon, army delta force, or british SAS

find a documentary on at least two but three would be better of those five commumities

those are men who can tell you something about what makes for a good code

everyone has value
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Zan replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

From what I understand, you both have a point : Hunter, you defend the practictality, the direct usefulness of a code, as it states clearly enough to everybody its core values, something anyone can refer to and understand even before/beyond the bias of personal interpretation.
Aslyn, you defend the practical value of a not-too-much-defined code in its form, in which everybody can find her/its/his own meaning and understanding. The search being some sort of inner quest, where each one will find and found his/its/her core values.

Complementarities.

A great exercise could be for Hunter to write this practical, useful code and then for Aslyn to spin it in a more 'open" form while maintaining its practicability.

Song of a Pathless Path
I-AM the EternalStillpoint, Existing Here/Now, Being all ways, UNique, All-Embracing & Pervading
wise & learning creatively, serene yet naturally ardent, crafting the realm of potentialities with optimal efficiency

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Hunter replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

Hunter Jedi studies 101
second post through to about fith post

also i acknowledge that the expression "when all you have is a hammer, everything you see looks like a nail" applies to me
im still very much a blunt instrument and all i can say is that im working on that

aslyn you are clearly a very intelligent person and your insights have value

i have genuine respect for you as a person and for your intelligence, based in whatbi have seennof younin thisnforum

my perspective isnshaped by my experience and the idea of passing on tools which bring an initiate up to date in short order is the worthy thingnto do

it strikes me as a ego thing to act as if anyone will walk through life without havingnto figure nit out for themselves-- theres very little that most f us have learned whichnwe just invented out of thin air andnyet even if nsomeone handed the answer over on a silver platter the answers do us no good until wenpick them up and usenthem for ourselves

also i have a definite vision of helpingnbuild a foundation which will last a thousand years and offer guidance to the entire human species
this means that the mystical hoopla must be balanced with the understandingnof the real world pressures of real world people facing the uncertainties and traps of life.

there is no such thing as spoon feeding really
or rather
those who will allow themselves to be spoonfed are going to find a spoon everywhere they go

and then for the rest of us, well, there is no spoon

everyone has value
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Hunter replied the topic: Purpose of the Jedi Codes (from Debate 1)

this is the first draft of the code that was suggested i write
that was a good suggestion and regardless of what happens next i am glad to have done it

i am a jedi
my commitment is to live up to the very best of my potential in every moment and circumstance of my life. The tools that i use to fulfill this commitment are the disciplines of learning and doing, service to others, and the respect of dignity and character, beginning with my own and reaching out towards all else
/
discipline, training, and the willingness to nurture, to respect, and when appropriate; to protect - the value and dignity of all things, begining with myself, and extending outward to include the entirety of the universe


----

EDIT

and am considering altering the end from discipline, training and the willingness to nurture" ect
to
"the disciplines of learning and doing" ect

i think thats pretty near to the best im able to do until i learn more

im wondering if "vision" ought to be included or if it would eventually be a natural result of "commitment to be the very best of myself"


Aslyn if you want to participate go for it, the ball is in your court

and if not thats cool too

everyone has value
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