Picking up after Gatherings

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Baru created the topic: Picking up after Gatherings

How are Jedi at returning the land better than it was found?

Sunrise Ranch, where the 2015 Gathering will be happening, just had a 5000 person event on our pastures. We will be doing a walk through the grounds this weekend. I am happy to report that 90% of all trash has already been removed. This is one of the most "clean" after events I have ever seen. At Burning man, I have seen people leave entire campsites, I have seen bed and coaches left behind for other to pick up.

So in general, this was a wonderfully green event.

Now the real "issue" starts. The cigarette butts. I am amazed that (in general) there are very few butts out there - compared to the amount of smokers and based on what I have seen left behind at other events. However there are still butts to pick up. Lots of them around the camping sites. I have found handfuls stopped into the grass around the tent areas.

I admit I find this habit so disgusting. A person just sits in one place smoking and dropping their butts onto the Earth without care or awareness. These pastures are used to feed our cows that we feed to people. I do not want to be eating a cow that has eaten cigarette butts nor eating grass that has absorbed the poisons released by them into the soil.

We pride ourselves on having "toxic free" land. We have never sprayed on our land ever - and now we have cigarette butt polluting our soils.

For "conscious" people, I find this habit contradictory to the "intentions" that they talk about.

I also find it interesting that every smoker I talk to about this tells me that they "pocket" their butts - if that is true why are there so many out in the fields?

Is there a solution?
If smokers can't stop smoking - can we expect them to "stop" throwing their butts everywhere?

Just image how beautiful looking and smelling the world would be without cigarette.

What do you think?

Is it possible for a smoker to be "green"?

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Kol Drake replied the topic: Picking up after Gatherings

In the military -- at least at one time -- you learn how to field strip the cigarette. Crumble up what paper and tobacco which remains (if any) since paper dissolves and the tobacco is supposedly 'natural' (ya, right) and then field strip the filter and paper and shove it in your pocket until you can properly dispose of it.

Easiest way for 'the enemy' to find you is to smell you smoking and follow the trail of butts.

Would think that any event should be the same rule as hiking any national trail -- only pack in what you can pack out... leave no trash behind.
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Jax replied the topic: Re:Picking up after Gatherings

In a group of 5000 it's easy for people to grow lax. Yet you said there was far less than expected which means most are pocketing them for later.

I get that you find it gross. Thing is, a lot of smokers do too. But it's an addiction and not something that even disgust can overcome. It's more complicated to address what smoking provides a person.

Can they be green? Sure. Roll your own. Use the most natural tobacco. Don't throw it on the ground.

Thing is, tobacco is considered sacred and is still an offering appropriate for many spirits. It's this artificial, chemical laden industry that makes it a problem.

Honestly, it's only very recently (the last few weeks) that I've seen information about the toxicity of butts. I think a huge number of people aren't aware of the danger of tossing butts. Just like most are ignorant of the dangers of spitting gum. Seems to me if there was greater awareness of the problems more would do the right thing, even if they keep smoking.

As for the gathering, remind me and you can give a little code of conduct speech about this at the beginning, and we'll do a sweep saturday evening/sunday morning. Lord knows we had to do police calls every week in the Corps, even though most of us weren't smokers. :-P we need to be good stewards.
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Baru replied the topic: Picking up after Gatherings

Kol Drake - I believe in Nicaragua or maybe Panama - snipers used the "coal" of a cigarette to lock onto targets at night. Interesting tactic.

I believe in "field stripping" cigarettes - anything helps. Just keep them off the ground.

Sunrise always does a "Welcome talk" to our guests to help set the container. After that, the guests need to honor the requests.

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  • Memnoich
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Memnoich replied the topic: Re:Picking up after Gatherings

Baru - not just Nicaragua, most military are taught to look for the glowing ember of. Cigarette, it can actually be seen for quite a ways on a dark night.


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Kol Drake replied the topic: Re:Picking up after Gatherings

Three on a match (also known as third on a match or unlucky third light) is a supposed superstition among soldiers during the Crimean War to World War I. The superstition goes that if three soldiers lit their cigarettes from the same match, one of the three would be killed or that the man who was third on the match would be shot. Since then it has been considered bad luck for three people to share a light from the same match.

The belief was that when the first soldier lit his cigarette, the enemy would see the light; when the second soldier lit his cigarette from the same match, the enemy would take aim and note if the soldier was friendly or foe; when the third soldier lit his cigarette from the same match, the enemy would fire. Another explanation for this was that the first to light the match gave an enemy marksman the range to the target, the second gave the windage on the target, and the third one was shot using this information.

No known source but an article written around 1917 or so mentions it... so it had been around a while.

But sight and smell are very important during wartime.
Your sense of smell can give you advanced warning of the enemy, often well before you see him. British troops in Malaya and Borneo as well as U.S. troops in Vietnam found this to be true.

Cigarette smoke can be detected up to one-quarter of a mile away if the wind conditions are right. You can smell fish, garlic, and other foods being cooked for several hundred meters. You may be able to detect a person who has been using scented soap or eating specific foods from up to 100 meters away, thus discovering an ambush before walking into it.

There are many types of wood used for fuel in the jungle. Some are good for making cooking fires, while others are only burned to repel insects or ward off the night chill in highland jungles. Being able to identify the smell of some of these woods may allow you to determine the purpose and general location of the fire.

For the person who seldom uses scented soap, after-shave lotion, or other such toiletries, it is easy to detect a person using these items at a considerable distance. In some areas of the world, the best way to prevent detection is not to use them. The British discovered this in Malaya. Often they would set an ambush on a known guerrilla trail. The guerrillas would get close to the ambush, then suddenly back-track and disappear into the jungle. Later, during the interrogations of captured guerrillas, they discovered why. Either the point man had smelled soap, nonindigenous food, or insect repellant used by the ambush party.

A good rule to follow is that if the local indigenous population does not use it, you should not use it either.

A final item that has a distinctive odor is explosives. Use surgical gloves to handle explosives when you can. Then put the used gloves in a Zip Loc bag. Always have one squad member who stays upwind of the explosives. He can then check to see if you are detectable at a distance. Also, make sure you package and seal all charges to where the scent of explosives is not detectable at a distance.

And sight is just as good/bad.
Flashlights, matches and cigs can be seen (and for matches/lighters and cigs, smelled) from far away. Too easy for a sniper to take out.

heh... but we are waaaaay off from picking up after a Gathering now.
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Baru replied the topic: Re:Picking up after Gatherings

this is all about consciousness and awareness. The military trains such things. Where do civilians learn this stuff? I assume places like this site are the place to raise up and "learn".

I love this stuff. This is the kind of stuff that I teach in my preparation and wilderness survival classes. Just being aware of your surround and affect on it.

I am so glad that this site exists so we can have these kind of caring conversations.

I look forward to when no one smokes, and for when the remaining smokers clean up after themselves.

We are the Force.
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Kol Drake replied the topic: Re:Picking up after Gatherings

Training?

Depends. Not everyone gets that cool military stuff... not unless you are on sniper/point squads. The regular 'ground pounder' is told when they 'need to know'. Self education helps.

Some might get a bit of it from childhood/young adult organizations like the Scouts... though doubt they touch on explosives. :P

Body odors? You learn that one pretty quick when 'the guys' spend all weekend boozing it up and then have to go run 10 miles on Monday morning. After a while, you can practicality smell the yeast sweating out of their skin. Which is not much different than what that long post talks about. If you are in an area which pretty much eats fish and some green staples/spices, if you eat some other diet (and spices), the body smell is different and a dead giveaway -- sometimes literally.

***

Now, addressing 'clean up'.
Bet someone could give a whole long lecture on 'knowing your enemy' by the types of trash left behind. Or some scouting tips like how warm/cool the campfire embers are to determine how long the camp has 'gone cold'.
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Baru replied the topic: Re:Picking up after Gatherings

I read about the "smell" during Vietnam. They could smell the rot of meat coming from the troops.
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MOOP - Material Out Of Place. This is a burner term. I do not care for the term, but I like the concept associated with it. If it does not belong - move it along - pick it up. It is "yours" because you see it.

We have a really good welcome talk. I am amazed at how little people take in. I might suggest we type up the bullet points and hand them out to people, lol.

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Tai-Da Vrikaurvan replied the topic: Re:Picking up after Gatherings

Smell is one thing the folks in Tengujutsu training learn quickly. We get blindfolded and we get sat on the ground. Each of the other men will do something differen't, one might have a smoke before hand, one might spray some perfume, another might eat something with a strong smell. Then they will walk by different distances but enough for the nose to pick up the smells. And the person sitting calls out when he smells that person near or when the smell hits the nose. Shutting of the eyes makes the nose work harder and with practice you can pick up smells very easily. This is why my instructor is so good at finding me in training even in pitch black whilst im in a hole in the ground.

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