Athars quotes and explanations/questions

  • sarah kehoe
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sarah kehoe created the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

A people without history is like wind on the buffalo grass.

To destroy a civilization one need not burn books, just get people to stop reading them.


These quotes go so well together that I couldn't resist putting them here with the same description. If a civilization no longer reads the words of their forefathers and no longer learns their own histories, then not only will they repeat the mistakes of old, but they will be sheep left without protection from the wolves. The wolves will be other civilizations and leaders with only one goal in mind....the goal of power.

. the death of democracy is not likely to be an assassination from ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference, and undernourishment.


And now for a quote of my own
Just because I live in the present doesn't mean I can forget about the past,or ignore the future.

Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
-Yoda
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Jax replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

We're living in a very interesting time of government. So many societies are so fractured and disconnected that there's nothing in the middle. Today I listened to a freakanomics podcast with Corey Booker who is one of those bizarre people who can make compromises even with people we think are evil. I bought his book because he's clearly got some wisdom to learn from.

To your quotes, it's funny that at a time when all information is available (in theory), we are less in touch with our history. We don't read things in depth because we're so used to 30 second sound bites and memes. Though, audible has made it much easier to 'read' books while on the go. Perhaps right now we just need people to see the value in books again?

I would add to your third quote by saying that many people care, but they don't believe it matters. When districts are so gerrymandered that people can't have their voice heard they stop speaking.
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  • sarah kehoe
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sarah kehoe replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

Fair is foul, and foul is fair in our current politics. We are told we have the vote, yet the electoral college really holds the power. The young generation is either clueless or knows enough to know it's almost not worth it to care. Or they don't like any choice available....then there are those who don't see the lie or the truths mask. I know I sound cynical but it's how I see it.

. So free we seem,
So fettered fast we are.
-Robert Browning


Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
-Yoda
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Jax replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

What's funny is if everyone actually voted, even the weird electoral college would work. But those who are representing the minority have sufficiently demoralized people so they don't vote. Add to that the hoops put in place to further discourage voting and you have the mess we have today. One role Jedi can play is to talk to people about politics, engaging them in the process to change it. You can't change anything by ignoring it or checking out.
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  • sarah kehoe
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sarah kehoe replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

I know we can't check out, but it's sad , I want to. I should care, this is the year I get to vote and....I don't even want to,

Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.
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Jax replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

But you have to. Seriously, even if you vote for a write-in, that makes a statement. Of course, I'd prefer you vote for the presumptive democratic nominee because Trump is a horrible option, but voting at all is the most important. ;-)

This is what I've learned in my 18 years as a voter, you will never be completely happy with a candidate or the process. But if the average person doesn't make their voice heard in local, primary, and national elections, the extremists win. And then everyone is unhappy. That's where we are now. When Bush was re-elected, I couldn't even speak I was so disappointed. It deeply affected me. And no, the worst fears did not happen (which is typically the case), I would argue our country still hasn't recovered from his spending and wars. That election came down to just a handful of votes in the grand scheme of things. Things could be very different if just a few thousand more people voted. If we just got half the population voting that would be an improvement. But it seems that most are very ignorant about politics and government and how important it is to vote, especially locally. And when that happens, the people in power win, not us.

What research have you done into the candidates? And have you learned about your local representatives?

Side note, give this a listen. All of politics isn't corruption. instituteforjedirealiststudies.org/forum/media/31710-the-united-states-of-cory-booker
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  • sarah kehoe
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sarah kehoe replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

Honestly I haven't done as much research as I probably should have. I do listen to NPR when I can. And I agree that Trump isn't the choice we need. No offense to him, but diplomacy and insults don't mix very well.

About the economy, I do agree that our current war isn't helping us much, but we have almost always had a wartime economy. Without some serious economic changes we honestly would probably struggle more in a time of peace than in a time of war.

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Jax replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

Sarah, the idea that a war boosts the economy is based on the way we did wars in the past. But spending trillions of borrowed money and then still ignoring the war cost in the budget crippled our economy this time around. Those who profit from war got incredibly greedy so the economic boosts of old didn't happen and won't happen. Without the Iraq and Afghanistan wars our economy would be significantly better, and it was until we got into those wars. You should probably give Rachel Maddow's book Drift a read. I have only listened to part of it so far, but it addresses this military industrial complex that created the recent wars and really sent us off course.

I highly recommend you do some research. NPR is a good place to start I believe. They do make the effort to have balance when balance is to be had. I would also recommend you do some research into Bernie. Not the bs memes and such that try to make it sound like everyone wants free stuff, but his whole career and how he sees changing the direction of our country. Then take a look at the other candidates. See what feels most benevolent. No president ever accomplishes their platform because the other party won't allow it, but their platform and focus tells you about who they are and what they will focus on.
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Kol Drake replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

"War based economy" is not just about blowing the economy by sending our military overseas without finding a budget to pay for it.
The US economic system *is* the military... moreso than ever when, in the late 80s and 90s, 'we' sold off all our manufacturing capability to make radios, televisions, washers, stoves, any kind of major electronics, etc. to the Japan, China, Korea and others.

To copypaste from wiki --
The military–industrial complex (MIC) is an informal alliance between a nation's military and the defense industry which supplies it, seen together as a vested interest which influences public policy. The term is most often used in reference to the system behind the military of the United States, where it gained popularity after its use in the farewell address of President Dwight D. Eisenhower on January 17, 1961, though the term is applicable to any country with a similarly developed infrastructure. Eisenhower spent time and effort warning that 'we' should watch out for the MIC and NOT let it take over the progress and purpose of the US. In 2011, the United States spent more on its military than the next 13 nations combined, without consideration of spending versus GDP.

In a U.S. context, the trope is sometimes extended to military–industrial–congressional complex (MICC), adding the U.S. Congress to form a three-sided relationship termed an iron triangle. These relationships include political contributions, political approval for military spending, lobbying to support bureaucracies, and oversight of the industry; or more broadly to include the entire network of contracts and flows of money and resources among individuals as well as corporations and institutions of the defense contractors, The Pentagon, the Congress and executive branch.

As unfortunate as it may be, war is big money. And it’s because of that uncomfortable fact, at least in part, that the world’s powers seem locked in a state of perpetual aggression, constantly squabbling over resources, strategic geography, and all manner of other things. This, naturally, means that soldiers need to be outfitted, air forces need aircraft, and that navies need warships — basically a heaping pile of demand just waiting to be supplied.

Enter the world’s defense companies, war contractors, and arms manufacturers. Most Americans are familiar with big names like Boeing or Lockheed Martin, both very successful businesses that owe a portion of their success to the Department of Defense’s constant thirst for newer, more powerful weaponry. The truth is, as defense budgets have grown increasingly swollen over the years, so has the market for arms manufacturing, and thus, arms exports. That means that guns, ammunition, vehicles, missiles, and many other pieces of equipment are consistently changing hands on an international scale, finding their way to those who are willing to get the most bang for their buck, in a literal sense.

From the numbers of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute study --

Here are the world’s top 10 arms exporters, along with their respective shares of global exports between 2010 and 2014, from SIPRI:

United States: 31%
Russia: 27%
China: 5%
Germany: 5%
France: 5%
U.K.: 4%
Spain: 3%
Italy: 3%
Ukraine: 3%
Israel: 2%

Not too hard to see that the US and Russia supply the rest of the world with the weapons that are then turned back on our own people. We are basically supplying the materials and weapons to kill ourself. Pretty stupid.

AND, Congressmen (and women) tend to perpetuate this because 'my state needs the jobs/economic boost' of having military bases, manufacturing of components, making boms and bullets in 'their' state -- and it makes them look good when they can keep a 30 year old jet 'operational' since it needs replacement parts that can only be made at 'their factory in the hills of xxxxxxxx'. It's why so many multi billion dollar 'research programs' go on for decades and are duds.... ie. The Sergeant York system, or the stealthy B-2 or the stupid 'new tanks' that then had turrents to wide to fit into the cargo planes that would have flown them to 'war zones'.... so they had to be taken apart to load and then re-assembled elsewhere.... wasting more time, personnel, and money. The list goes on and on.

The MICC has been 'the standard' of our economy since the 50s.... and it needs to change. And that is done one vote / election at a time.
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Jax replied the topic: Athars quotes and explanations/questions

Thank you Kol. Have you seen good references for how different things were in WW1 and 2 time frames? That's when the wars pulled us out of bad economic conditions rather than creating them. I would suspect that for one, there weren't such things as subcontractors that were increasing the price and doing the work that the military itself would do. Plus, the cost of development wasn't nearly as high as it is now. And there wasn't this artificial propping up of the MIC like there is now, where we're paying for new tanks that the military itself doesn't even want.
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