Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

  • Jax
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Jax replied the topic: Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

And that right there is a great example of how things go wrong...
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  • Volund Starfire
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Volund Starfire replied the topic: Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

Memnoich wrote: Now the thing that gets me is only 2 post's further down, this Gray Jedi Knight, is being congratulated for achieving her knighthood. But according to her, if you've been a Jedi for more than a year you are ready to take on the challenge of instructing another.

This is what I saw before, people that should be students taking on the role of master, well before they are ready. A knight with 3-4 students, wow, let alone the fact she is a brand new knight.


I know that the Jedi are different from the Paladin, but I liken a great deal of the training styles and methods back to that which I have physically experienced there. The three levels of training are very similar as are the titles used and authority that goes with those titles.

Knights attempting Nobility must petition for an Apprentice three years after Knighthood, but it is difficult. Most try it after five years, but there is one at my Table who has never tried it after forty years. It’s a three day test to even be allowed to take an Apprentice. Should that Apprentice become a Knight, then the Knight becomes Nobility.

A Lord/Lady can take a single Apprentice as their first Apprenticeship. If that Apprentice passes the Tests of Knighthood, then they are able to take two the next time, then three, four, and on up. I’ve only ever known one Lady who accepted three Apprentices at once, and that was mostly because she was a little on the odd side… but all became Knights.

I know the Jedi are different. There are some who title themselves as Masters who barely grasp the philosophical concepts of the Force and Code. There are some who are relegated to students that have a grasp of the Force, Code, and Philosophy that would rival a Zen Master. It all depends upon where one goes and, unfortunately for some groups, who one knows.

There is a reason the only title I go by within the Communities is Jedi. I’ve been called Master in some, Knight in others, Apprentice in others, and some things that I can’t write due to the TOS here in a few. I prefer to think of the Jedi at this stage as more like the Quakers: We’re all even and there should be no titles.

I think that’s why I like IJRS so much: the highest “title” that can be granted is Knighthood. There is not a tiered system that a person could attain the rank of Grand High God-King Master of Jedi after less than a year’s worth of classes.
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Jax replied the topic: Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

That's an interesting system, and at first glance I like it. I think there's a lot to be said for taking time before taking on an apprentice. As we reach the point of being able to formalize a few things offline, I think it's something we could try.

One of the reasons I don't get involved in other groups is because so many don't understand the problem with believing anyone even could be a knight after a year, much less then training people. It's not worth my energy to try to change their minds. So instead I focus my energy on creating a group with the high standards I believe necessary for this movement to be meaningful. Memnoich mentioned earlier that we are in our infancy as a movement. This is quite true. I don't believe we should ignore ranks due to that, though. Instead, we do our best to set standards that make sense, and then as we learn more we increase them and require that any who want to keep their rank to the extra training to meet the new standards (within a reasonable time frame). Ranks should grow as the path grows, not remain stagnant. One way to look at it could be that many martial arts studios have different ranks for children than for adults. My dojo growing up did not, and did not have different requirements, but there are arguments to be made for a junior rank vs a senior rank. With the Jedi community I view many as online ranks vs offline. Those 1 year knights are working with standards that would never work in an offline community that I would be a part of, but I could look at it like a junior rank. That's my personal take on it. It matters to me because I have invested a lot into this community and am doing what I can to make it last for countless generations going forward. I also want any ranks I hold to mean something in the real world, not just online. Anyway...rambling a bit...
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Memnoich replied the topic: Re:Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

An that's why I don't worry about titles. In the long run it matters little.


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Memnoich replied the topic: Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

I am very interested in finding out more about this paladin in training and rank structure. I'm curious as to if there is a nearby order and how to find that out/contact them.


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Jax replied the topic: Re:Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

I asked Volund to write up information for the rank planning area, so we'll have it for future planning, but I'm sure he'll pass along some info in the meantime. :-)
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  • Volund Starfire
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Volund Starfire replied the topic: Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

It will take me some time to type it up. The copy of the Codex I have was written by someone who took great pains with their calligraphy. It is akin to reading the Constitution. It will be done soon, though.
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Frost replied the topic: Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

Memnoich wrote: its things like this that bug me, and that I saw before, this was on a FB group that I joined(to not call someone out, I have removed names):

Greetings,

This is a call to all Knights and Masters.

More and more of the Jedi coming to the group are asking to be taken on as apprentices. We need to step up to this duty. I already have taken three and am considering a fourth. I can't do this on my own and need all of you. Members who have been on this path for more than a year you too can help with this task. All those who wish to be taken as an apprentice please comment below.

Gray Jedi Knight

Now the thing that gets me is only 2 post's further down, this Gray Jedi Knight, is being congratulated for achieving her knighthood. But according to her, if you've been a Jedi for more than a year you are ready to take on the challenge of instructing another.
This is what I saw before, people that should be students taking on the role of master, well before they are ready. A knight with 3-4 students, wow, let alone the fact she is a brand new knight.


I'm really glad I found this here. I fear that I may be taking this topic away from what it was originally meant to be, and if I do please help me to put this in the right place.

I am also a member of the FB group where this was posted and even though I'm new to this Institute and to Jediism, I found that it bothered me a lot as well. This person calling herself a Jedi Knight had only started along the Jedi path a little over a month ago. I don't know how she was appointed or by who but the part that bothers me is that many people in my shoes... initiates... are in this FB group and are seeing this happen and thinking that the Jedi path is easy and they can be Knights and Masters in no time and don't fully understand what it takes to be a Jedi Realist.

It looks to me as though History is repeating itself with people who want 'power' making their own websites or FB groups and throwing out titles like candy again. I'm not trying to cause drama or rant, that's not why I'm here and that's not what a Jedi would do. But I feel almost as if as Jedi we should do something to stop new Jedi from going down the wrong path like this. There is a lot of potential out there that I feel is being mislead.

Or should I heed Jax's wise words about not wasting my energy on it and just focusing on my training here where I believe true Jedi Realist training and support can be found? Maybe people will realize for themselves that something isn't right and eventually along their path they will find this place or another reputable source for Jedi Realism?

Again I do apologize if posting this here was incorrect but I'm just so glad that someone else in this Institute saw what I saw and commented on it. It has really been bothering me.

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Anirac Morgan replied the topic: Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

I understand your concerns, Frost.

History repeats itself. Mostly always, and I think this is simply something we need to accept. I don't think there's much we can do to stop these Jedi, nor do I know if I think they ought to be. People will find their own path in their own way. The people who are searching for an easy solution will pick such a path and take any candy/title thrown at them. At the same time, these are less likely to choose the more difficult route as it is, so not sure preventing them from taking the short cut would do anything good. I think we need to accept that we can't control other people, nor should we regarding matters like this. Some might go the easy route first, find it lacking and search out a different path. Some might leave Jediism completely. It's their choice. As is which community people will feel drawn to. If asked for our honest opinion, we could give it, of course, but elsehow I am not feeling a need to prevent anyone from setting up a group or asking to train others. Mostly because I am not experienced enough myself to judge anyone else's ability to train Jedi. Also, I think I need to sweep in front of my own door, before I proceed to judge the cleanliness of my neighbours porch, or however that expression goes, lol.

In other words, I think we should focus on our own training, but also on helping the pages where we deem good training can be found by being active posters as active pages draw in more trainee's. If we post actively and help keep the good pages alive and prospering, then we're helping others as well, as they are more likely to go wherever the community seems strong and alive. And if someone asks for where one can get proper training, it never hurts to link them to a few of your recommended. IJRS is on Alethea's list of active Jedi orders, and I have been bumping this whenever I see we've gotten a solid chunk of new members in the FB group.

However people can and will find it on their own if they really are serious about finding Jedi training, and whatever the universe wills, it will happen. So, I don't put too much into worrying.

Qui-Gon Jinn: "There's always a bigger fish."
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Johannes (Yoshio) replied the topic: Jedi Online History - what went wrong and right

For Frost and others who might be concerned with this and the history of the Jedi “movement”. It had been just yesterday that, once again, I read this bit in the third book of “Conversation with God”. In this passage God tells Neale that the things we rebel against, the things we try to counteract will remain. Only when we are able to see the things for what they are and accept them, then we become able to set our self free from them. Before that we need to go through and make this experience again and again.
So for me Jax has put it best. Me too I don’t want to “waste” my time on things and topics like that as I do feel that quality and perseverance will reveal itself finally.
My personal take on that is a bit along the line of how my martial arts teacher explained what Budo means. He said that Budo is “The Way of THE Warrior” and not “The Way of Warriors” meaning that the Path we walk is our personal and individual path and we walking this path define what is of importance for us and what we want to experience and what not. So, for those who are for quick and easy “success” there will always be a way and there is nothing one could do against it. For all the others who know that nothing of long lasting quality is gained quickly, those are the people who will keep on searching, keep on going till the finally find what they are after. Some people this might take loner, others might be able to walk on more direct paths but finally we all can reach or set goals but how the look like and what they are like it is fully up to us. For me this is the beauty and also the danger in all what is life. We are in the end the only ones who are responsible for our own lives and there is no one else to blame if things don’t work the way we want them to be.

Anyway, just my two cents and sorry for the bit of rambling. :meditate

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